Emergency Nurse Relief Act 2009- Update

Hushdawg · Jun 4, 2009

I have nothing against Philippine nurses. But seeing what is going on in the US, wouldn't it be a better idea all around, if the Philippinno nurses took control over their profession? Demanded that their government stop overproducing nurses who have no chance of obtaining employment in their country? They are setting themselves up to be exploited in the US, and other countries who are the recipients of the un-needed nurses.
In other words, fix the problem instead of emigrating to other countries to find work. It is the obligation of a government to take care of their own, not export the problem to other countries. JMHO and my NY$0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

This has absolutely nothing to do with the growing shortage in the USA which we will see explode as soon as the recession is over.

Again people are talking about the poor conditions of nursing in the Philippines when we are talking about filling a need in the USA.

I fail to see what the conditions of nursing in one country have to do with the needs in another.

I also do not see how nurses seeking employment abroad is "exporting the problem" when in reality it is individuals seeking a solution.

We aren't just talking about nurses from the Philippines, although the Philippines is the only nation in the world with a measurable SURPLUS of active-license nurses and therefore the first place to go when one needs a nurse; Korea, China, India and Pakistan are ramping up in numbers of nurses seeking employment in the USA.

Please stop focusing the argument on other countries. The issue is the problem in the USA and how to fix it.

Hushdawg · Jun 4, 2009

I don't see the advocates for this bill post any place except in areas that are self serving. That sends a big message to me.

Opponents to the bill are equally self-serving.

They don't want foreign nurses to be here so that they can have the jobs for themselves. But they want the jobs to have altered conditions, increased pay and all sorts of other things.

Bringing in foreign nurses who are appreciative of current conditions is counterproductive to the desire to change the state of things so there is a secondary opposition to bringing in nurses from outside the USA.

How is that any less selfish?

Hushdawg · Jun 4, 2009

Why would administrators only talk to Expats and not the US nurses, sorry this doesn't seem right to me. Good management is inclusive and doesn't seek advice from people not in the situation.

They aren't seeking advice from me; we are just talking when we encounter at offices of other businesses or when they talk to me about our business and what we do.

Maybe they are more open to people that aren't part of a union because they can say things that won't cause damage or struggle?

Hushdawg · Jun 4, 2009

Nursing needs patient advocates, I would be very impressed with nurses ( like the Canadian Nurse who are 100% unionized) who could immigrate with solutions other than we will work for cheap and not question management.

No matter how many times it is proven an incorrect statement this false argument that immigrant nurses work cheap keeps getting thrown around.

Nurses have to be paid the same because of US law. The hospitals are not paying less for these nurses.

But at least now we have gotten to the root of your problem. You fear non-union nurses upsetting the status quo.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 4, 2009

They aren't seeking advice from me; we are just talking when we encounter at offices of other businesses or when they talk to me about our business and what we do.
Maybe they are more open to people that aren't part of a union because they can say things that won't cause damage or struggle?

Many hospitals in my area are not union and magnet hospitals where governance should be shared, shame on management not talking and empowering staff.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 4, 2009

No matter how many times it is proven an incorrect statement this false argument that immigrant nurses work cheap keeps getting thrown around.
Nurses have to be paid the same because of US law. The hospitals are not paying less for these nurses.
But at least now we have gotten to the root of your problem. You fear non-union nurses upsetting the status quo.

Actually, I am not a union member ( management) and the point I was making about Canada the nurses worked the system together to make patient care better.

When I worked staff the majority of the places I worked were non union, since I felt I could be treated like a person not a member of the union.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 4, 2009

Opponents to the bill are equally self-serving.
They don't want foreign nurses to be here so that they can have the jobs for themselves. But they want the jobs to have altered conditions, increased pay and all sorts of other things.
Bringing in foreign nurses who are appreciative of current conditions is counterproductive to the desire to change the state of things so there is a secondary opposition to bringing in nurses from outside the USA.
How is that any less selfish?

Because this is our home and we should be taken care of first, just like I would not be employable in many foreign countries since they take care of their citizens first, why should the US be any different ? Do other countries put foreigns needs above the citizens, I would hope not.

Also I don't think I would be welcome to suggest that their countries spend money on my interests. I work for a non profit, while these nurses are working for Profit making companies and are generating income for agencies and lawyers. When I work my salary is n't feeding lawyers and agencies.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 4, 2009

This has absolutely nothing to do with the growing shortage in the USA which we will see explode as soon as the recession is over.
Again people are talking about the poor conditions of nursing in the Philippines when we are talking about filling a need in the USA.
I fail to see what the conditions of nursing in one country have to do with the needs in another
I also do not see how nurses seeking employment abroad is "exporting the problem" when in reality it is individuals seeking a solution.
We aren't just talking about nurses from the Philippines, although the Philippines is the only nation in the world with a measurable SURPLUS of active-license nurses and therefore the first place to go when one needs a nurse; Korea, China, India and Pakistan are ramping up in numbers of nurses seeking employment in the USA.
Please stop focusing the argument on other countries. The issue is the problem in the USA and how to fix it.

The answer is to Support the NEED Bill and have nurses educated in the USA. This will solve the problem.

. And if it doesn't we can re evaluate and formulate a new plan, which could include the use of foreign nurses. But I don't see a rush and the changes can be incremental.

I can see you want to advocate for foreign nurses and I can appreciate that, but you are not an expert in US Nursing Practice ( unless you have been a recent health care manager in nursing) and should respect the views of the front line nurses. If there was a need a patient safety was in question, I would be the first to look at emergent solutions to the situation. We are not in crisis mode.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 4, 2009

In nursing lingo,

When we teach nurses to do an assessment, the nurse is to ask the patient (not the family, co worker, or chart ) about there health status. If a student did go to the patient to do the evaluation and assessment they would fail.

Here is a nursing issue, an assessment of a potential shortage, US Nurses are the front line staff, why do we need agencies , lawyers, or foreigners defining what we need.

The nursing community supports the Nursing Education Act, so why is the Emergency Relief Act even in the picture, since it is supported by Lawyers, Agencies, and Foreign Nurses. Who has more of a front line , first hand grasp of the situation.

According to some, the lawyers, the agencies, and people who have never worked in the USA know better then the US nurses. I find this loop sided and not logical.

rainbow11 · Jun 6, 2009

I would imagine that all employers sponsoring foreign-nurses would ask for some kind of contract or commitment. I heard most hospitals ask a foreign-born nurse to work for two years in exchange for permanent visa sponsorship (aka green card). I have a friend who worked for two years at a hospital which sponsored him.

... There are employers that require contracts signed in exchange for immigrant visa sponsorship.
On the other side of that coin, if a foreign nurse who arrives on an immigrant visa is hired by an unfair employer who did not ask for a contract, the foreign nurse will naturally leave the employer to work somewhere else - that's just survival. Again, no matter what a nurse's country of origin is, we know what's unfair and we know what is considered good working conditions...

I'm glad that some people noticed $1,500.00 application or filing fee that a foreign-nurse has to pay if this bill is approved. $1,500 * 20,000 visas = 30, 000, 000.00. So, this 30 million will go toward improving US nursing programs and training more US nurses after all.

lindarn · Jun 8, 2009

I would imagine that all employers sponsoring foreign-nurses would ask for some kind of contract or commitment. I heard most hospitals ask a foreign-born nurse to work for two years in exchange for permanent visa sponsorship (aka green card). I have a friend who worked for two years at a hospital which sponsored him.
I'm glad that some people noticed $1,500.00 application or filing fee that a foreign-nurse has to pay if this bill is approved. $1,500 * 20,000 visas = 30, 000, 000.00. So, this 30 million will go toward improving US nursing programs and training more US nurses after all.[/quote
Who won't have jobs because there will be 20,000 foreign nurses who will have been hired in place of American nurses because the hospitals just paid for these nurses to emigrate to this country and will want a return on their money.
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, Rn, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 8, 2009

Linda,

It costs the hospitals more to recruit foreign nurses. Most don't have the resources for an airplane ticket or money to rent an apartment so their agency will help with those expenses. Do a google search on foreign recruitment and the web pages all state the same. Then the foreign nurses have an extended orientation, sometimes much longer than new grads. In Canada there are nurses who have been working for over a year as new grad and not passed the Canadian Boards.

So $1500 is small potatoes compared to the $30K which is what is the cost of bringing a foreign nurse, what would be fair is for every foreign nurse $30K goes to American education.