Eligibility for CA BON unfair...

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · May 16, 2012

American educated nurses have to complete clinical and theory at the same time, why should it be any different for you?

Yes, it will take forever to find a US school to complete this, but why didn't you just go to school in the USA to begin with?

What isn't fair is your classmate got to get a license and you didn't.

You can go to another state or try to become a LVN, but do not claim you are being treated differently since you are being held

to the same standard US educated nurses are.

elkpark · May 16, 2012

No one has a "right to be an RN" in any US state -- RN licensure is a privilege granted by each indiividual state BON to individuals who meet the BON's established criteria. If someone doesn't meet the criteria, s/he doesn't get licensed. Lots of individuals educated in other countries have problems meeting the educational requirements for licensure in the US, just as US-educated nurses sometimes have trouble meeting the requirements for licensure in other countries. Different countries use different models of nursing education and licensure, and you can't always move easily among countries (professionally) because of that.

I hope you'll be able to find some way to resolve your situation -- best wishes.

BennyRNCA · May 16, 2012

TO Lex: sorry to hear about your situation, but I have mentioned this to a few people here in this forum, since you and your one batchmate went to the same school, same courses, just about same everything, this batchmate got thru the system and even up with getting her RN license.

Here's what I proposed to those: since you actually know this person who passed the NCLEX, just contact her, get her RN license number and then go to the CA BON site, look it up online, also type in the name, and there's your proof. So then take that same information and send it off to your evaluator for re-consideration. To do the search online is all public record, it's no secret.

Isn't this the better choice than to wait a couple of years to just to get into single or couple of CA nursing course(s) or program? It's always possible that you could get lucky and grab one of the few openings that allows international students to a open spot in one of the colleges here, but try this method first.

BennyRNCA · May 16, 2012

I do like this person's look on the situation, she pretty much said it all.

https://allnurses.com/international-nursing/who-blame-ca-682278.html

If the above link doesn't work, here's what she said below:

Hi, to all my fellow kabayans out there! I have been following these topics for almost a year now and so saddened by the current state of affairs that has been troubling all of us in dealing with the issues with the CA BON.

I too along with several of my batchmates with either having the same concurrency problem or not enough hours in those certain courses to satisfy the CA BON requirements. Even their friends from other Phils colleges are in the same boat and everyone trying to get their ATT, some having been denied twice, told that to meet the minimum requirements going to a US approved college will help get us thru, etc.

From all my readings here on this site, who is to blame in this crisis we are all facing?

-- The CA BON? NO, we are in their territory, we have to meet their requirements, their rules, their regulations, their minimums. So many of our batchmates and their friends have been reapplying twice or more times or not even having to be able to get a chance to take the NCLEX exam.

-- The CA evaluators/analyst? NO, they are only doing their job. They must also enforce and apply the same rules/regulations to not only us but to any applicants, be they from a local to other states to other overseas countries) wanting to get licensed in CA. If, not, then they could lose their jobs and in this economy, it would be very hard to find another type of job they have working with the CA BON and still put food on the table or pay for the lights in their living places.

-- CA rules and regulations? NO, it's been there for many years from my understanding in other posts here, we're not going to change their rules or requirements. There has been NO recent changes or additions to their requirements, only the current enforcement of the ones already in place for years. There's no reason for them to accomodate us and with understanding as there's no longer any more nursing shortage in CA or in 99% of the US. Too many US unemployed nurses everywhere and very little available job openings that doesn't need experience and more so, if so many of us are new grads.

On another note: one of my friend's has a good family member who is from Phils and a practicing CA lawyer for over 16 years, he is not an employment nor labor attorney, he is in business and taxation ligitation, but as a favor to her, he was asked about the CA BON denial letters received of the concurrence and insufficient hours requirements, after several months of inquiries and investigation, it was of his professional opinion, that the CA BON stands correct in their position and that legally, we "don't have any legal grounds to stand on". The advice of either trying to find some kind of remedial classes or re-taking of a complete CA approved nursing program is the best and main option open to us affected. He also finds it very suspicious of those applicants getting their ATT and others being denied from the same batchmates, same schooling, same instructors and could result in future legal action taken against them for "knowingly and willfully submitting false information" to the CA BON, even if the RN licensee claims he/she didn't know it was not the truth. There is NO limitation that the CA BON could revoke or suspend the CA license even if endorsed to another state. What is worst is if other state has severe financial or other penalties, they can enforce it and could be much worse than in CA.

So who is to BLAME?

-- Our own colleges and universities? YES, a definite yes! I have a very good and reliable source from one of our batchmate's relative/father who is very well associated to the CHED. They (CHED) have always known of these same minimum CA BON requirements for many years. But they have always thought that why fix our own country's nursing management and philisophies if it's not broken and we're not obligated to our Phils to move on to the US, even though, it's understood there's a very high percentage will be leaving Phils and mostly to CA, but that's their problem, not ours. Well, it is now! It's now insane to attend a Phils college if anyone today wants to get a nursing job in CA.

They never imagined that one day the CA BON would clamp down on their requirements. It was always preached to them (not from the US side, but from so many of the members of the CHED) that with the nursing shortages in CA and all over the States, they could keep teaching new nurses to meet the growing demand in the States. However, it's been a real problem in the States since 2009, but CHED didn't want to believe that or did believe it but wanted to keep the process going and why alert the students already enrolled and wanting to enroll, maybe the problem will be washed away.

-- Ourselves? YES and no. We should have known that even though, many of the Phils are accredited and some are even ISO-certified, but it means nothing to the outside of the walls of the Phils borders. Yes, it's true that we are just poor students studying hard every day and night, having so much stress and worries for 4 years, finding ways to pay for our education, our families making the tough sacrifices both emotionally and financially, giving up many good times that our other non-nursing friends enjoyed, but figured it will be worth the long sacrifices once we get a job in the States.

-- Global recession? YES. From what we read in the other topics here, many of the older US nurses cannot afford to quit their jobs now due to so many have lost so much money in their retirement banks, many nurses have to come back to work and reactive their US license so they can make more money either due to their own spouses are unemployed or have had some changes in their lives and need to come up with some extra money, so in all of this, many are not leaving their jobs or have refilled them and leaves no more empty spots to be filled. With the US unemployment rate so high, many cannot longer afford the health insurance or have lost it completely and much less patients coming in to see a doctor, so many sick people and their family members don't have the financial means to pay for the medical cost, which in turn, helps to pay the nurses.

So guys, we can no longer depend on getting a license in CA or in other states that are affected by this, much less find a good job in the States like years before. My batchmates and many others we know are being more realistic now and understand we just need to pack up, move on and find some other states to apply into or even other countries. Maybe there still might be a few of us that will get pass and be able to pass the NCLEX the first time in CA. We are all tired from getting those rejection letters!

Some of my batchmates have heard that other US states may soon do what the CA BON has been enforcing, if it is already the other state's requirements, which is only going to squueze all of us into a tighter area.

Solution(s):

-- I don't have any of the immediate problems, maybe others do here?

-- I think once the US economy does get better one of these years, we'll hopefully be employed in the other states and able to come back to CA (which honestly is about another high percentage of Phils grads wanting to work in CA due to family, weather, salaries, etc) with years of experience and then, maybe then, we'll truly have the nursing shortage that is so hyped up in the media and in our schools.

-- Hope that if a big nursing shortage does happen later on, the CA BON will be able to "bend" the rules for us.

Well, I have vented long enough, what do you guys think? We can do this, but probably not in CA for the present time.

lexdelarosa · May 17, 2012

thank you all for your comments...i am not saying that it is unfair that i did not get the eligibility for of course the california bon has there requirements and standards to give out eligibility to take the nclex. what im saying is if your going to say no based on whatever reason better say no to everyone...as this applies to my situation and my batchmate's. yes you are right, being a rn is a priviledge because as we all know you have to attain certain things on top of that pass the nclex before you become a rn, but dont you think being able to sit down or be given a chance to take the nclex is a right...being able to challenge any licensure exam for that matter is a right? not a priviledge?

well anyway i have just receive a reply from my evaluator after stating my situation with my batchmate's and now my evaluator is saying that, and i quote, "we only learned of the non concurrency in the philippines in november 2011, had we known when your “batchmate” submitted her application she would have had to produce same documents for review as you".

i have been doing research myself and definitely the date november 2011 is not showing up.

Bluecross · May 17, 2012

Philippines does have their theory and clinicals at the same time. Its just that the " 25 cases" are not completed at that time. We are still exposed to the clinical side of the theory taught in the classroom. I was wondering if US educated nurses have to complete any "cases" like how the Philippine curriculum does? (The 5 minor, 5 major. etc..)

caliotter3 · May 17, 2012

Since the Philippines has been producing nurses for the US for decades, I would think it would be up to Philippine nursing schools to comply with US requirements. It is not like it is some big secret. If I were you, I would simply get a US nursing license in another state and take it from there.

lexdelarosa · May 17, 2012

Im actually hopeless right now since I received that email. What Im looking into is challenging the NCLEX for LVN (NCLEX-PN). I really cant afford to go back to school. I have no means of going out of state because I am currently employed here and of course I would need money for that one too.Hay......5 years, 6 days a week, 12 hours a day of school...all for nothing. Not even given a chance to take the exam. So disappointing

elkpark · May 17, 2012

... but dont you think being able to sit down or be given a chance to take the NCLEX is a right...being able to challenge any licensure exam for that matter is a right? not a priviledge?

No, I don't. It's not a "right" -- it's a privilege extended by the BON (or any state licensing board) to individuals who meet all the other established requirements for licensure. I agree that it is unfair if it is the case that your "batchmate" somehow got a license without meeting the CA BRN's requirements, but it is also true that the boards do change their requirements from time to time, and it may just be that you are unlucky in your timing.

BennyRNCA · May 17, 2012

As elkpark mentioned, it's not a "right", but a privilege. Think of it as trying to get a driver's license, same thing, not a right to drive, but a privilege. To obtain a driver's license, one must pass the licensing requirements from the written test, vision test and anything that's needed to satisfy them. As a privilege, it's something that can also be taken away for whatever reasons they deem is proper, from revoking to suspending a license as well.

To Lex: I would not give up your struggle yet. As you said, they did acknowledge the batchmate of making it thru the system, BUT now you need to follow up with the same evaluator and give that person the NAME and RN license of your batchmate that you personally know.

You need to show solid proof. Anyone here can claim their entire 163 batchmates from the same school, same courses, same graduation month all got their ATT, but where's the evidence? It's called hearsay. But you have it in your hands. It's still not a guarantee, but isn't worth a try? Ask for a re-consideration of your application.

I know I would if I were in your shoes rather give up too early. Good luck!

caliotter3 · May 17, 2012

You're not hopeless, with a Philippine nursing education, you can get a job in the Philippines.