For the new grads reading this: you don't have to take this garbage. Timothy was once a new nurse also, and I am sure that he still makes a mistake or two. Everyone starts somewhere. EVERYONE has something to learn, and everyone has something to teach. There are plenty of jobs out there. Pick the one YOU want, not the one that other people think you should take. Don't listen to the nurses who $itch about new grads .... if they weren't gripping about us, they would be gripping about other departments, the docs, their nurse manager, the President, the weather, the patients, the patient families, the toilet paper in the bathrooms, or maybe even other "wonder-nurses" who make $35.50 her hour.
You're right, I WAS once a new nurse.
But.
I had three years of medical floor experience and I was a CHARGE nurse BEFORE I moved into Critical Care.
I didn't need to learn basic skills and time management AT THE SAME TIME I learned critical skills and assessments.
Indeed, because I didn't come from TELE, I was at a severe disadvantage until I mastered that skill. And THAT is only ONE skill I was at a disadvantage learning. I couldn't imagine trying to learn critical care nursing at the same time I was trying to learn to be a nurse, period.
There are just so many things to know FIRST. You need a solid foundation to build a skyscraper.
In my opinion, coming straight into Critical Care is like trying to learn how to drive on the NASCAR circuit. Can you do it? Probably. But don't complain that you are getting 'run over' by the other drivers. THEY DIDN'T decide to learn to drive at 180mph. You did. And think about if from THEIR point of view: an inexperienced driver at high speeds has the potential to cause wrecks for everybody involved. Can experienced NASCAR drivers wreck? Of course. But don't be surprised if I'm just not quite as nervous driving by one of them. . .
Look, I certainly can see the allure of driving on the NASCAR circuit. It's a heck of a thrill. But, just because driving in rush hour traffic isn't quite as compelling, that doesn't mean that being able to drive on the highway system isn't a necessary skill to master BEFORE driving on a 'closed speed track'.
Plus, if we are verring this thread strictly towards the benefits of previous experience, BECAUSE OF MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, I can work just about anywhere, in a pinch. I'm not 'pigeon-holed' into CCU because that's all I know. Many hospitals require nurses to float (thankfully, I work in a 'closed' CCU unit in re: floating). If you don't have some experience managing 6 pts, how are you going to do so when you have to?
Where are you going to go when you get 'burned' out on CCU? Once you have 5 yrs experience, nobody is going to give you a 'full' orientation to other areas and the time management and 'basic' skills you just don't have.
I don't know where you work, Timothy, but at Vanderbilt, it doesn't matter how many years experience you have, how good you think you are, or how hungry you are to eat the young ones, EVERYONE gets the orientation they need...be it full or review, or whether you are a new grad or gray with experience. I wouldn't work for an institution that throws bodies on the floor to care for others, just for the sake of staffing.
To all the new grads out there, don't let callused nurses scare or intimidate you. We all learn and excel in different ways.
In my experience, burn out is 99% attitude. With attitudes like this one, it is a wonder any of us stay nurses long enough to claim experience.
To all the new grads out there, don't let callused nurses scare or intimidate you. We all learn and excel in different ways.
In my experience, burn out is 99% attitude. With attitudes like this one, it is a wonder any of us stay nurses long enough to claim experience.
Just my , but I notice this is your first post. IMHO, I would not consider Timothy (or any of the other posters) as 'callused'. Nor would I consider them as having an 'attitude' problem.
Seems to me that experienced nurses are simply explaining to the OP why she may detect some resentment from her CCU co-workers. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I don't feel anyone has anomosity towards the OP - simply trying to answer her question and pointing out problems new grads have, when trying to learn how to just be a nurse, and trying to cope with learning critical care unit skills at the same time. No one is saying it can't be done, only that it is not the easiest way to do it.
Be interested to know why you consider that as 'burn-out'
Just my , but I notice this is your first post. IMHO, I would not consider Timothy (or any of the other posters) as 'callused'. Nor would I consider them as having an 'attitude' problem.
Seems to me that experienced nurses are simply explaining to the OP why she may detect some resentment from her CCU co-workers. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I don't feel anyone has anomosity towards the OP - simply trying to answer her question and pointing out problems new grads have, when trying to learn how to just be a nurse, and trying to cope with learning critical care unit skills at the same time. No one is saying it can't be done, only that it is not the easiest way to do it.
Be interested to know why you consider that as 'burn-out'
Agreed.
In fact, I have pointed out several times to the OP that only SHE is as interested in her career as SHE is. Therefore, she should push ahead and do what is best for her.
And I stated that a positive attitude and some perserverance will go far to reduce some of the resentment.
I've seen new nurses eventually excel in critical care. I never said otherwise. What I said is that it's a much 'steeper' learning curve - for everybody involved.
Part of accepting the challenge of such a steep curve is the attitudes and stereo-types that come with it. It can be done. Just don't pretend that everybody else has a problem. It is a DYNAMIC.
It's easy to blame everybody else for unfair situations. But each of us bear some responsibility for the situations we put ourselves into, that the situations we tolerate.
It is a big challenge to move directly into a specialty unit. But, it's a challenge for the whole TEAM. It's just pollyanna to expect that nurses won't be 'put out' by the real inconveniences to the team that training a new nurse entails. By the same token, CCU nurses are renowned for our "assertiveness" (read what you will in the quotes). Part of the learning curve of CCU is developing that assertiveness within yourself - with or without the "quotations".
And, I am far from burned-out. I love CCU and see myself working in this environment for years to come. I believe that some floor experience IS preferable. But, I'm not a dolt to the times: I recognize that new nurses are part of the matrix. That being the case, I hope and wish for all of you to excel.
There is a difference between the ideal and reality. I can point out the ideal without being ignorant of the reality. In reality, the sooner new nurses learn the 'curve' - the better all of us are. I happily help and actively encourage just that outcome.
IN fact, once aboard, it's incumbent of all of us to foster your growth. A unit that pushes away the nurses new to critical care is a unit that has trouble 'recruiting' new critical care nurses, regardless of past experience. A 'culture of success' involves both being careful about who is brought in, AND being careful in cultivating their success once inside.
The failures you cite are dynamic to everyone involved. Your managers should be better 'leaders' on the concept of your success. Your preceptors should be hand-picked, not based on their experience alone, but on their receptiveness to teaching YOU (not just YOU - the new nurse, but YOU.) And you should understand that the level of investment in you is commensurate with the level of responsibility. You bit off a big bite. Good for you - ambition is a good quality and will serve you will in CCU. But don't spit it out or grouse because it's hard to chew. Chew harder instead.
geez you guys. There are obvioulsy 2 sides to every story. Does it have to turn to negative toxic comments? I'm getting ready to leave this forum all together after the last week on Allnurses . I will add that i DO see both sides. I have been a nurse for 21 years, and 18 of those have been in critical care. I was(and am still) the supportive one of the new nurses. People always come to me. I remember what it was like to be new. It troubles me to see some of the seasoned nurses be so unsupportive. We have all seen those types. However, for those that choose to come fresh from school to the ICU, know that it is a jump. It is very difficult to teach you advanced skills,assessment, & critical thinking while you're still trying to master passing meds. I do it, and I am supportive and want you to succeed, but it does not make my job easier, especially since I will be having the heaviest cirtical patients AND being your resource at the same time. Again, I am not condoining the unsupportive attitude, but trying to make you all see what it is like to be in each other's shoes. My advice to anyone who REALLY wanted it, would be to get 1-3 years hospital experience on the floor before transitioning to ICU. That being said, I know it is not reality with the nursing shortage, and once you've made the decision to jump, I'm there for you. (but have a little empathy for me as well). I also want to add to bbrn, that everyone does NOT get the orientation they need. I have seen some very unsafe practices recently that have set some new grads up for failure.
Can we please be a little kinder on this forum. It is turning into an ugly place to be, and I really relied on this forum for support and comfort. Disagreeing,debating, and discussing does not have to turn to insults and nastiness. If done properly, debate and discussion can lead to professional growth.
And to lifelongstudent, I was highly offended by your post. I don't know where the moderators are these days on this forum. I have worked the bedside for 21 years and have continued my education and certifications on my own. I've worked hard every day i 've worked for 21 years, and my patients, my orienteees, and the hospitals i work for benefit from my knowledge, experience, expertise, and skill. I don't exactly make 35.50/hour but i am close, and it is well deserved (and I don't have a crappy attitude). I'm trying not to take these negative comments personally, but they shouldn't be out there at all.
we're all adults and have worked hard to graduate from school, i'm sure the new-hire was chosen from a list of applicants and they were picked for a reason, one is that they stood out. i know not a lot of americans take up nursing so there are alot of other nationalities studying nursing and traveling across the world to be a nurse like me, i hope there wouldn't be anti-this, anti-that when it's my turn. everyone has to start somewhere and everyone was trained by someone! it takes a lot of compassion to be a nurse, so i hope there will also be compassion for co-workers and not just our patients. i think it's only professional to be nice and accomodating to others rather than thinking the worse when a newbie is added to your unit. we all have to work to live and why not do it happily??? i will definitely not be the type to think anything negative of someone i haven't met or haven't even given the chance... i believe i should act towards others the way i want others to treat me. i have no time to argue or fight anyone in this board, i just wanna shed some light...
geez you guys. There are obvioulsy 2 sides to every story. Does it have to turn to negative toxic comments? I'm getting ready to leave this forum all together after the last week on Allnurses . I will add that i DO see both sides. I have been a nurse for 21 years, and 18 of those have been in critical care. I was(and am still) the supportive one of the new nurses. People always come to me. I remember what it was like to be new. It troubles me to see some of the seasoned nurses be so unsupportive. We have all seen those types. However, for those that choose to come fresh from school to the ICU, know that it is a jump. It is very difficult to teach you advanced skills,assessment, & critical thinking while you're still trying to master passing meds. I do it, and I am supportive and want you to succeed, but it does not make my job easier, especially since I will be having the heaviest cirtical patients AND being your resource at the same time. Again, I am not condoining the unsupportive attitude, but trying to make you all see what it is like to be in each other's shoes. My advice to anyone who REALLY wanted it, would be to get 1-3 years hospital experience on the floor before transitioning to ICU. That being said, I know it is not reality with the nursing shortage, and once you've made the decision to jump, I'm there for you. (but have a little empathy for me as well). I also want to add to bbrn, that everyone does NOT get the orientation they need. I have seen some very unsafe practices recently that have set some new grads up for failure.
Can we please be a little kinder on this forum. It is turning into an ugly place to be, and I really relied on this forum for support and comfort. Disagreeing,debating, and discussing does not have to turn to insults and nastiness. If done properly, debate and discussion can lead to professional growth.
And to lifelongstudent, I was highly offended by your post. I don't know where the moderators are these days on this forum. I have worked the bedside for 21 years and have continued my education and certifications on my own. I've worked hard every day i 've worked for 21 years, and my patients, my orienteees, and the hospitals i work for benefit from my knowledge, experience, expertise, and skill. I don't exactly make 35.50/hour but i am close, and it is well deserved (and I don't have a crappy attitude). I'm trying not to take these negative comments personally, but they shouldn't be out there at all.
i admire people like you! i hope i will get to work with a wonderful person like you someday after i graduate. afterall, working together is a team and people really need to get along.
Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
Hmmmmm, I don't think I've ever had to step in and say, "Let's play nice" in this forum.
Guess I'm gonna say it........... Let's play nice. We all have differing opinions on this subject - the new grad in an acute/critical unit. But, they are opinions based on years of experience for the most part. I think we can take each opinion and learn from it/them.
But, let's not let these opinions become attacks on the other, o.k.? Keep self out of it for when we start interjecting self, it normally doesn't fare very well.
So, continue to pleasantly debate the topic at hand.
I COMPLETELY agree with Tweety. I did experience this, too. I was told that's the way they were treated as a new RN, so why should it be any different for me. There is much to be said for a seasoned RN and the experience he or she brings to a given situation. However, there is just as much value in you as a new nurse. The enthusiasm grad nurses bring to a unit can reenergize the entire unit. Don't be afraid to seek out new experiences. If you are having to precept with an RN with the personality of a mudfence, request a change. I don't care if they are F.K. (she was one of those mudfences) with oodles of experience. In order to learn you have to be in an environment that allows you to feel safe. If you are afraid to ask questions and ask for clarification on things you don't understand, what's the point? You worked hard to get through nursing school...and we all had to "pay our dodo's" there. Going out into the real world and applying all the theory we learned requires finding a preceptor or mentor we can immulate.
As for the comments of some about needing experience on a m/s floor before going to a CCU, horsepuckey! I worked on a m/s and then I went to NICU and there was no comparison. The only thing I was able to carry with me to the NICU was theory (courtesy of nursing school) and a thick skin (courtesy of a nasty preceptor). So every situation is different. Any nurse worth their salt knows that.
Hang in there. If you and your preceptor have a personality conflict because of their attitude towards new nurses, request a new one. That is your right.
The bottom line is always how what I am doing is affecting my patients and their families. I would try talking to the preceptor one to one. He/she may not realize how she's coming across. Also, every nurse that has a preceptor has the opportunity to critique that preceptor. Honestly, but professionally put your thoughts and feelings down on paper. That preceptor will usually be given the option to get more training or not be utilized. I wouldn't worry about what they thought on the situation.
, but I notice this is your first post. IMHO, I would not consider Timothy (or any of the other posters) as 'callused'. Nor would I consider them as having an 'attitude' problem.
Sounds good. Hope you and the kids have a wonderful time at the camp. See ya when you get back.
ZASHAGALKA, RN
3,322 Posts
You're right, I WAS once a new nurse.
But.
I had three years of medical floor experience and I was a CHARGE nurse BEFORE I moved into Critical Care.
I didn't need to learn basic skills and time management AT THE SAME TIME I learned critical skills and assessments.
Indeed, because I didn't come from TELE, I was at a severe disadvantage until I mastered that skill. And THAT is only ONE skill I was at a disadvantage learning. I couldn't imagine trying to learn critical care nursing at the same time I was trying to learn to be a nurse, period.
There are just so many things to know FIRST. You need a solid foundation to build a skyscraper.
In my opinion, coming straight into Critical Care is like trying to learn how to drive on the NASCAR circuit. Can you do it? Probably. But don't complain that you are getting 'run over' by the other drivers. THEY DIDN'T decide to learn to drive at 180mph. You did. And think about if from THEIR point of view: an inexperienced driver at high speeds has the potential to cause wrecks for everybody involved. Can experienced NASCAR drivers wreck? Of course. But don't be surprised if I'm just not quite as nervous driving by one of them. . .
Look, I certainly can see the allure of driving on the NASCAR circuit. It's a heck of a thrill. But, just because driving in rush hour traffic isn't quite as compelling, that doesn't mean that being able to drive on the highway system isn't a necessary skill to master BEFORE driving on a 'closed speed track'.
Plus, if we are verring this thread strictly towards the benefits of previous experience, BECAUSE OF MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, I can work just about anywhere, in a pinch. I'm not 'pigeon-holed' into CCU because that's all I know. Many hospitals require nurses to float (thankfully, I work in a 'closed' CCU unit in re: floating). If you don't have some experience managing 6 pts, how are you going to do so when you have to?
Where are you going to go when you get 'burned' out on CCU? Once you have 5 yrs experience, nobody is going to give you a 'full' orientation to other areas and the time management and 'basic' skills you just don't have.
btw, I EARN my pay and deserve more.
~faith,
Timothy.