eating at the desk

tiredfeetED · Mar 3, 2005

3 years ago, when i started my job we were allowed to drink coffee out at the desk. Then the no drink at desk policy came out....Now, being charge nurse I rarely have drink at the desk in the ED unless it is dead..which we no doesnt happen. I am suppose to inforce this reg. but I dont.. One supervisor does throw drinks away..but I only do if it is coffee from the night shift..Workin the ED is hard secondary to, sitting which is frowned upon unless with a patient, no drinking or eating at the desk. And never (unless quiet, which is never) get a evening break. I see this as normal and except it.

Pill Hoarding Hussy · Mar 3, 2005

Nurses have to just not accept this. I, and everybody else on my unit, barring a natural disaster take breaks AND full lunches, all the time, no exceptions. And I work in a neaonatal ICU. Busy from the time you walk in, til the time you leave. There is always someone to cover, no matter how inconvenient. It's just not acceptable to have to sacrafice that, besides, its the LAW. We might take it a lil late, but we take it. JUST REFUSE TO BE DENIED.

totally agree. i think that it's an attitude problem where i work. it's like people think the more physical pain they are in/the more they deny themselves, the more they are showing how much they care. it's a load of horseshit! i don't buy it for a minute, we have to take care of ourselves- and help take care of each other. but when that's the prevailing attitude, it's hard to get someone to watch my assignment (and dreaded pager) when i need to eat!

tiredfeetED · Mar 4, 2005

3 years ago, when i started my job we were allowed to drink coffee out at the desk. Then the no drink at desk policy came out....Now, being charge nurse I rarely have drink at the desk in the ED unless it is dead..which we no doesnt happen. I am suppose to inforce this reg. but I dont.. One supervisor does throw drinks away..but I only do if it is coffee from the night shift..Workin the ED is hard secondary to, sitting which is frowned upon unless with a patient, no drinking or eating at the desk. And never (unless quiet, which is never) get a evening break. I see this as normal and except it.

cabbage patch rn · Mar 4, 2005

It usually IS a staffing issue, if there is no one to replace you, then you cannot take a break. And in most hospitals, getting administration to erect a closed cupboard for food/drinks is not reality. I agree that we shouldn't have to eat or drink at the desk, but what other choice do most of us have? 12 1/2 hours is a long time to be deprived of food and drink. For the life of me I just cannot understand how it is a infection control issue when I wash my hands after patient care and then go to the desk and drink my covered drink while charting. Maybe I'm just dumb.

It is (and always has been) a BIG infection control issue--Hepatitis outbreaks were well documented a few years ago. Some of the reasons for those outbreaks (poor handwashing, not wearing gloves as much as we do now) don't exist. Be that as it may, we shouldn't have to eat/drink @ the nurses' station.
Maybe we could sit down w/the NMs, and possibly your infection control person, find out what the JCAHO rules are, try to come to an amicable compromise. Like a cupboard [closed] you can stow CLOSED, COVERED containers of beverages for consumption, preferrably out of view of pts and visitors. If that can be done, everyone should agree to follow the rules!
If the problem is staffing, that is a different problem.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Mar 4, 2005

STATE wage laws in most states require 30 minute lunch break AWAY FROM WORK AREA. If your employer is not accomodating this law on a routine basis, a phone call to your state labor board would be indicated. Several nurses have obtained financial settlements over this issue.

steelcityrn, RN · Mar 4, 2005

Sometimes all it takes to make a change is teamwork! Everyone who is working without breaks/lunches need to band together and complain. A call to the state would also be good. When I worked on the floor, the nurses before me did this, not only did we get a lunch, but if we had not had a chance to take are first 15 min break, we could add it to our lunch time.

lifesaverwv · Mar 4, 2005

The 2 nurses that I work with are very dedicated to the pts we care for. To help keep us healthy & happy we need at least a 30 minute meal break to get away from the floor. You are right in saying that if you have to eat at the desk you are constantly interupted by phone calls, pts call lights, & calls to our unit from other departments. I rarely take a morning or afternoon break but I insist on having a meal break away from the desk so I can regroup my thoughts :) Myself & my 2 nurses working with me said we should take up smoking (just kidding) because the smokers take the alloted break time & more. I wish our hospital grounds would become smoke free & then maybe we could get some work out of the smokers. Before I get flamed I'd like to say that alot of smokers follow the break rules, but others take advantage of going out frequently to smoke which I do have the problem with.

redwinggirlie · Mar 4, 2005

The break room is never too far away. don't like my food on a desk on the floor. UNLESS I have disinfected it first (the desk) and can be assured I can finish my food at one sitting.

NancyJo · Apr 27, 2005

We have also been told no food or drink at the desk or in a "pt. care area", which is anything that is outside the break room d/t JCHAO. Have been hearing this for past sveral years. Worked midnights years ago at a VA, where when it was getting close to time for a survey our head nurses would actually come in the morning and check the garbage cans in our nurses station for any evidence that we had had food or drink during our night shift.

LeahJet, ASN, RN · Apr 28, 2005

I know all of you will think I am making this up.....but when I was a traveler a couple of years ago, I worked at a hospital that gave you.....are you ready?....ONE HOUR lunch breaks. I worked on a cardiac unit and in a neuro ICU at that facility. They ENCOURAGED you to leave the floor and the cardiac unit even had a "sleep room" where you could nap on your break. Of course, you had to reserve the room and there was only one per floor. I remember the first couple of weeks feeling guilty taking an hour lunch break. But I got over the guilt....=)..... and started to enjoy reading my book with my feet propped up in the atrium....sooooo nice! The break from a high stress unit is very nice but more importantly, it shows the nurses respect.

BTW, I am staff in an ER at a magnet hospital now.....back to the days of eating "when you can"... and praying an ambulance doesn't bring you a patient while you are choking down your 2am lunch.

sighhh... oh well..........

Mimi2RN, ASN, RN · Apr 28, 2005

This came from the State web site. Do you think they have ever paid us what we are owed?

Meal periods

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In California, an employer may not employ an employee for a work period of more than five hours per day without providing the employee with a meal period of not less than thirty minutes, except that if the total work period per day of the employee is no more than six hours, the meal period may be waived by mutual consent of both the employer and employee. A second meal period of not less than thirty minutes is required if an employee works more than ten hours per day, except that if the total hours worked is no more than 12 hours, the second meal period may be waived by mutual consent of the employer and employee only if the first meal period was not waived. Labor Code Section 512. There is an exception for employees in the motion picture industry, however, as they may work no longer than six hours without a meal period of not less than 30 minutes, nor more than one hour. And a subsequent meal period must be called not later than six hours after the termination of the preceding meal period. *IWC Order 12-2001, Section 11(A)

Unless the employee is relieved of all duty during his or her thirty minute meal period, the meal period shall be considered an "on duty" meal period that is counted as hours worked which must be compensated at the employee's regular rate of pay. An "on duty" meal period shall be permitted only when the nature of the work prevents an employee from being relieved of all duty and when by written agreement between the employer and employee an on-the-job paid meal period is agreed to. The written agreement must state that the employee may, in writing, revoke the agreement at any time. IWC Orders 1 -15, Section 11, Order 16, Section 10. The test of whether the nature of the work prevents an employee from being relieved of all duty is an objective one. An employer and employee may not agree to an on-duty meal period unless, based on objective criteria, any employee would be prevented from being relieved of all duty based on the necessary job duties. Some examples of jobs that fit this category are a sole worker in a coffee kiosk, a sole worker in an all-night convenience store, and a security guard stationed alone at a remote site.

If the employer requires the employee to remain at the work site or facility during the meal period, the meal period must be paid. This is true even where the employee is relieved of all work duties during the meal period. Bono Enterprises, In. v. Bradshaw (1995) 32 Cal.App.4th 968.

If an employer fails to provide an employee a meal period in accordance with an applicable IWC Order, the employer must pay one additional hour of pay at the employee's regular rate of pay for each workday that the meal period is not provided. IWC Orders and Labor Code Section 226.7 *This additional hour is not counted as hours worked for purposes of overtime calculations.

In all places where employees are required to eat on the premises, a suitable place for that purpose must be designated. This requirement does not, however, apply to employees covered by IWC Order 16-2001, on-site occupations in the construction, drilling, logging and mining industries.. For employees covered by IWC Order 16-2001, the employer must provide an adequate supply of potable water, soap, or other suitable cleansing agent and single use towels for hand washing.

Under all of the IWC Orders except Orders 12, 14, 15, and 16-2001, if a meal period occurs on a shift beginning or ending at or between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., facilities must be available for securing hot food and drink or for heating food or drink, and a suitable sheltered place must be provided in which to consume such food or drink. Under IWC Order 12-2001 for employees in the motion picture industry, hot meals and hot drinks must be provided for employees who are required to work after 12 o'clock midnight, except off-production employees regularly scheduled to work after midnight.

1.Q.What are the basic requirements for meal periods under California law?

A.

Under California law (IWC Orders and Labor Code Section 512), employees must be provided with no less than a thirty-minute meal period when the work period is more than five hours (more than six hours for employees in the motion picture industry covered by IWC Order 12-2001).

Unless the employee is relieved of all duty during the entire thirty-minute meal period and is free to leave the employer's premises, the meal period shall be considered "on duty," counted as hours worked, and paid for at the employee's regular rate of pay. An "on duty" meal period will be permitted only when the nature of the work prevents the employee from being relieved of all duty and when by written agreement between the employer and employee an on-the-job meal period is agreed to. The test of whether the nature of the work prevents an employee from being relieved of all duty is an objective one. An employer and employee may not agree to an on-duty meal period unless, based on objective criteria, any employee would be prevented from being relieved of all duty based on the necessary job duties. Some examples of jobs that fit this category are a sole worker in a coffee kiosk, a sole worker in an all-night convenience store, and a security guard stationed alone at a remote site.

2.Q.My employer is not allowing me to take a meal period. Is there anything I can do about this situation?

A.Yes, there is something you can do if you are covered by the meal period requirements of the law. If your employer fails to provide the required meal period, you are to be paid one hour of pay at your regular rate of compensation for each workday that the meal period is not provided. If your employer fails to pay the additional one-hour's pay, you may file a wage claim with the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement.

3.Q.Is it permissible if I choose to work through my meal period so that I can leave my job 30 minutes early?

A.No, working through your meal period does not entitle you to leave work early prior to your scheduled quitting time. In order for an "on duty" meal period to be permitted under the Industrial Welfare Commission Wage Orders, the nature of the work must actually prevent the employee from being relieved of all duty, and there must be a written agreement that an on-the-job paid meal period is agreed to. Additionally, the written agreement must also state that the employee may, in writing, revoke the agreement at any time.

4.Q.Can my employer require that I stay on its premises during my meal period?

A.Yes, your employer can require that you remain on its premises during your meal period, even if you are relieved of all work duties. However if that occurs, you are being denied your time for your own purposes and in effect remain under the employer's control and thus, the meal period must be paid. Minor exceptions to this general rule exist under IWC Order 5-2001 regarding healthcare workers. Pursuant to the Industrial Welfare Commission Wage Orders, if you are required to eat on the premises, a suitable place for that purpose must be designated. "Suitable" means a sheltered place with facilities available for securing hot food and drink or for heating food or drink, and for consuming such food and drink.

5.Q.I regularly work an eight-hour shift. What can I do if my employer doesn't provide me with a meal period?

A.You can either file a wage claim with the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (the Labor Commissioner's Office), or you can file a lawsuit in court against your employer to recover the premium of one additional hour of pay at your regular rate of compensation for each workday that the meal period is not provided.

6.Q.What is the procedure that is followed after I file a wage claim?

A.

After your claim is completed and filed with a local office of the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (DLSE), it will be assigned to a Deputy Labor Commissioner who will determine, based upon the circumstances of the claim and information presented, how best to proceed. Initial action taken regarding the claim can be referral to a conference or hearing, or dismissal of the claim.

If the decision is to hold a conference, the parties will be notified by mail of the date, time and place of the conference. The purpose of the conference is to determine the validity of the claim, and to see if the claim can be resolved without a hearing. If the claim is not resolved at the conference, the next step usually is to refer the matter to a hearing or dismiss it for lack of evidence.

At the hearing the parties and witnesses testify under oath, and the proceeding is recorded. After the hearing, an Order, Decision, or Award (ODA) of the Labor Commissioner will be served on the parties.

Either party may appeal the ODA to a civil court of competent jurisdiction. The court will set the matter for trial, with each party having the opportunity to present evidence and witnesses. The evidence and testimony presented at the Labor Commissioner's hearing will not be the basis for the court's decision. In the case of an appeal by the employer, DLSE may represent an employee who is financially unable to afford counsel in the court proceeding.

See the Policies and Procedures of Wage Claim Processing pamphlet for more detail on the wage claim procedure.

7.Q.What can I do if I prevail at the hearing and the employer doesn't pay or appeal the Order, Decision, or Award?

A.When the Order, Decision, or Award (ODA) is in the employee's favor and there is no appeal, and the employer does not pay the ODA, the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement (DLSE) will have the court enter the ODA as a judgment against the employer. This judgment has the same force and effect as any other money judgment entered by the court. Consequently, you may either try to collect the judgment yourself or you can assign it to DLSE.

8.Q.What can I do if my employer retaliates against me because I asked him why we don't get a meal period?

A.If your employer discriminates or retaliates against you in any manner whatsoever, for example, he discharges you because you ask about not getting a meal period, object to what you believe to be an illegal practice, or because you file a claim or threaten to file a claim with the Labor Commissioner, you can file a discrimination/retaliation complaint with the Labor Commissioner's Office. In the alternative, you can file a lawsuit in court against your employer.

safewaygreenbox · Apr 28, 2005

Our new infection control nurse just happens to be a friend of our deputy ward manager :uhoh21: - what a pain - now she (deputy manager) has gone into inforcing it when she didn't seem that bothered before.

When are we supposed to eat all the chocs that we get :chuckle .

I carn't survive without my coffee.......so I have one......just less obviously :chuckle . After all we havn't got an office to hide in :chuckle . Hope she doesn't use this web site :stone

Kay the 2nd :)