'Dumbing Down of Healthcare'

llg, PhD, RN · Apr 21, 2004

Might it be our public school system is broken and sending unprepared students to college?
seph

It's funny you should say that. There is an article (available for free online) in the current issue of American Educator called, "It's Time To Tell the Kids: If You Don't Do Well in High School, You Won't Do Well in College (or on the Job)"

It makes the point that society has come to think that taking college classes is a right -- that everyone should be allowed to go to college. Therefore, they are not taking high school seriously enough. Instead of getting a proper foundation for advanced, college-level work, students are drifting through high school without really working hard intellectually. Then they either flunk courses in college ... or have to spend a lot of time and money taking remedial classes ... or the colleges have to "dummy down" ... etc.

The article is available at:

http://www.aft.org/american_educator/spring2004/tellthekids.html

I taught an undergraduate course once and was appalled at the level of my students. This was a junior year course of a 4-year BSN program. Several could not write a paragraph with reasonable grammar and punctuation. One told me she had never been in any library before and had no idea how to go about finding information. (The library was in the same building as the nursing school.) etc.

There are lots of people in college today who should not be there. That's why they have those "weeding out" courses.

llg

MSURT · Apr 21, 2004

I am taking my pre-reqs at a local community college before I start my BSN in May and I am shocked as to how many people in my Anatomy class are failing! The scary part is they are all pre-nursing! This concerns me because when I grow older, I would like to know that I am recieving the best healthcare possible from people who can handle the mental rigors of modern medicine!
Perhaps I sound snooty, but it seems like more and more of these schools churn out nursing graduates who should have never considered the field in the first place!
Thoughts or comments?
Rhiannon

Trust and beleive that those students who are "failing" will probally not even get accepted to the actual nursing program with the amount of applicants we currently have.

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Apr 21, 2004

For the MOST part I have been favorably impressed with the quality of our ADN nursing students. With 350+ applicants for 42 spots (and the number of applicants growing every year), the competition is so fierce that only those students who are incredibly motivated, persistent, and/ or academically gifted are getting into the program.

RNKITTY04 · Apr 21, 2004

A "C" in A&P 1 or II will not get you into Nursing school. At least were I attend, and I think most school's are the same.

nurse_robin · Apr 21, 2004

Hello all,
Is it just me or does there seem to be a 'dumbing down' of healthcare that seems to be taking place in nursing and allied health schools across the country? I am taking my pre-reqs at a local community college before I start my BSN in May and I am shocked as to how many people in my Anatomy class are failing! The scary part is they are all pre-nursing! This concerns me because when I grow older, I would like to know that I am recieving the best healthcare possible from people who can handle the mental rigors of modern medicine!
Perhaps I sound snooty, but it seems like more and more of these schools churn out nursing graduates who should have never considered the field in the first place!
Thoughts or comments?
Rhiannon

Hi Rhiannon,

Don't know whether to feel offended or not about your post....I was a low B-High C student when I was in nursing school (including Anatomy; frankly I was scared to death of cutting up the cat).....BUT, I scored very high on my boards and some of the A students in my class did not pass on their first try. Sometimes grades in the classroom are not the only indicator of how well a nurse you will be once you get to the floor. I consider myself an excellent nurse and my patients and bossess seem to agree!

Havin' A Party!, ASN, RN · Apr 21, 2004

My A & P I prof told us last year he thought the later editions of the prescribed book (Marieb) were dumbed down in his opinion. He used the version from several years back (1999) to teach from, while the students read from the latest edition (2003).

orrnlori, RN · Apr 22, 2004

Smarts come in all shapes and sizes. I happen to be horrible in math, a total math phobic, discalcula en toto even with tutors (3 to be exact), but excellent in writing and communication. The sciences were hard for me, nursing was harder, still I managed to rangle a 3.76 at graduation. I've been out 6 years and have continued my education. I have no problem with a C student becoming a nurse because a C is usually somewhere above 78%. Very few programs grade as harshly as nursing programs. Many times, as pointed out before, C students are indeed excellent nurses with wonderful analytical problem solving and great people skills. When all things are combined, most people are actually quite average.

I understand your ire at the commercial. I wouldn't appreciate it either. Rather than dumbing down the profession of nursing, it appears the school is simply doing what schools do, and that is to try and get the most number of students possible in order to make the most money possible. People forget that colleges and universities are businesses, there to make money.

leslie :-D · Apr 22, 2004

when i graduated from nursing school, there was only 1/3 of my class remaining....the rest had either flunked or quit. also, some of my classmates who breezed through school with a's would have never been my 1st choice for a nurse. although it does take intelligence to be a good nurse, the art of nursing is hard-learned for many. so the c's vs. the a's don't mean much to me but many other more important qualifications and applications of nsg. i would truly worry if everyone was acing these courses.

rhiannonwolf · Apr 22, 2004

There is a saying in veterinary schools: A students become the researchers, B students become the teachers, and C students become veterinarians! A 'C' is not a bad grade at all. My best friend's father teaches anatomy at the veterinary school here in Missouri and he says that the 'A' students are smart, but they lack the communication skills necessary in order to become a good vet. I think this same principle can be applied to nursing school as well.

To be quite honest, I could never get a higher grade in Organic Chemistry than a C+.

To all of those people who have replied with them earning a C in sciences courses, I could make the argument that a 'C' made several years ago is now the equivalent of an A or B in some of these pre-req classes that are being taught presently. I guess you could go round and round, I just don't want the nursing profession seen as a job that 'anyone can do', because they can't!!!

Rhiannon

dansamy · Apr 22, 2004

What do they call the guy who graduated last in his medical school class? "Doctor"

zenman · Apr 22, 2004

I've taught in a school of nursing twice. The second time I went back there were "remedial" classes in almost every subject. I'm sitting there in my office wondering why the high schools aren't doing their job. Why should a university have to offer remedial courses? Sad; very sad.

justjenny · Apr 22, 2004

Hello all,
Is it just me or does there seem to be a 'dumbing down' of healthcare that seems to be taking place in nursing and allied health schools across the country? I am taking my pre-reqs at a local community college before I start my BSN in May and I am shocked as to how many people in my Anatomy class are failing! The scary part is they are all pre-nursing! This concerns me because when I grow older, I would like to know that I am recieving the best healthcare possible from people who can handle the mental rigors of modern medicine!
Perhaps I sound snooty, but it seems like more and more of these schools churn out nursing graduates who should have never considered the field in the first place!
Thoughts or comments?
Rhiannon

At my community college - nearly the entire class was pre-nursing as well. Out of 1,400 applicants, 125 were selected. In my class of 35 students - only two were accepted into the nursing program - myself and one other 4.0 student.

Yes, anyone can get into a pre-req class (and most certainly fail it) but not everyone can get into nursing school. From those that enter nursing school, not many can finish (we have had two dropouts in our class of 30 in the last 10 weeks alone)

My A&P professor was adamant about not answering questions like "Will this be on the test??" her response was always "Geez, I hope your not MY NURSE when I am sick - if it wasn't on the test are you still going to need to know it in your career?!?!?" (She was one of the best teachers I have EVER HAD!!)

My .02

Jenny

ADN Grad Dec. 2005