I am absolutely livid this morning about comments that a Doctor made to one of my pts families yesterday while he was performing his assessment on a new patient.
Pt was admitted to the floor with severe hypoglycemia and I had spent the better part of three hours monitoring blood sugars while Dr. Plankton, as I refer to him was at church. All the while the spouse is asking me where he is and why it was taking so long for the Doctor to come see the pt.
Anyhoo, when the Doc finally gets there to assess the patient and begins asking basically the same questions from my nursing assessment and the spouse questions him as to why he is asking the same questions and what does the idiot say to her? "I need to get the information from the patient my self b/c I do not trust the nurses."!!!!! :devil: Then what does the spouse do? Comes out to the hall, where I have been listening to the whole conversation and says to me "How I can trust you as his nurse if Doctor doesn't?". Myself and another nurse explained to her that it was not out of the normal to ask the same types of questions and reassured her that we were competent of providing care for her dh.
I am working on filing a complaint to the powers that be regarding the situation and was wanting to know, would it be appropriate or not to state how insulted I was by the comment that he made in the complaint or should I just stick to the facts!! This doctor, who btw, is a hospitalist has many times degraded the nursing staff and the hospital itself with comments such as these.
You don't have to put personal feelings into it. It would be assumed that you did feel insulted. The facts, without the feelings interjected, infer that:
-hospital looks incompetent and unsafe to patient
-gauranteed bad publicity, no matter the outcome, because the pt. and family will tell everyone they care about of the "unsafe hospital" they were at, so that they don't "ever go there"
- the doctor doesn't feel it's necessary to protect the reputation of the hospital. The docs are what pull people to the hospital. Would you want an advertising agency doing your commercials for you while they tell their collegues that your establishment...uh...sucks?
Yeah, I think the hospital would like to know about something so potentially damaging.
I don't really have any different advice to offer on this subject; just an observation. I found it interesting that the spouse was initially frustrated with the doc for being late; then the spouse was not understanding why they were having to answer the same questions from the doc that the nurse asked. Then after his response they immediately turned on the nurse who was asking the same questions. On the surface it sounds like the OP was doing a dead-on assessment, and the doc used a great diversional tactic to get the focus off of him being late. Is this a stretch on my part? Unfortunate situation to be sure.
would it be appropriate or not to state how insulted I was by the comment that he made in the complaint or should I just stick to the facts!!
Putting emotions into a complaint is a) considered "opinion" and b) looks like the complaint was filed simply because a nurse was offended, and not because his attitude is a real problem.
I just thought of something - nurses are not perfect and I have seen nurses miss things or misinterpret things and then the docs are not impressed. Recently happened with a patient that the nurse felt was fluid overloaded but in fact was dehydrated and third spacing - the nurse gave a report w/o adequate info to the surgical doc and got an order for Lasix instead of calling the primary doc, who was livid when he found out and asked why the nurses didn't know about third-spacing . . .he gave a little inservice at the nurse's station. It was embarrassing as the nurse who misinterpreted and withheld info was already gone.
Maybe, just maybe the docs have been disappointed in the nurses . . . . just as we seem to bash the docs for being idiots, nurses are not above making mistakes.
And I'm not saying the OP is making any mistakes . . . .not at all.
What you are missing is that while you might have a point, it is extremely unprofessional to make such a comment in front of a patient and family-think of it would you ever, generally, tell a pt's family member that you don't trust the doctor? It was unprofessional, unethical and made a negative impact.
This is a very interesting discussion, but I couldnt get passed the point that you called him Dr. Plankton at church no less! I am very easily distracted from the real point in almost any discussion, so nothing personal.
Any way, had to look up plankton. and found this:
The name plankton is derived from the Greek term πλαγκτον, meaning "wanderer" or "drifter". While some forms of plankton are capable of independent movement and can swim up to several hundreds of metres vertically in a single day (a behavior called diel vertical migration), their horizontal position is primarily determined by currents in the body of water they inhabit. This is in contrast to nekton organisms that can swim against the ambient flow of the water environment and control their horizontal position (e.g. squid, fish, krill and marine mammals).
So does this mean he is a squidlike guy who goes with the flow in ecclesiastical environments?
What you are missing is that while you might have a point, it is extremely unprofessional to make such a comment in front of a patient and family-think of it would you ever, generally, tell a pt's family member that you don't trust the doctor? It was unprofessional, unethical and made a negative impact.
No, I didn't miss that at all and said that the doc was wrong in my first post and my third post.
No matter what, the doc was wrong to say anything of the sort in front of the family.
Is it possible he's not a jerk, but just lacks decent communication skills? hmmmm I know that would be a rarity, but I'm of a mind that doctors, although excellent at practicing medicine, run the gamut as far as social and communication skills. And do tend to lean towards "awkward at best" in the "How to Talk To Patient Families" department.
That said, when he opened his mouth to explain to the woman why he was asking them again, he said, "I can't trust the nurse's assessment."
But maybe that's not what he meant. Maybe what he meant was,
"I can only trust MY assessment, because that's standard procedure, and I may think to ask something that would shed a different light on the situation. I would ask you the same questions if it was a nurse, another doctor, the chief of surgery, or Everett C. Koop himself who had asked you before."
Now that said, only you can tell me if he meant it maliciously ie, THAT nurse. or meant it generally ie, ANY nurse, doctor, etc.
I would suggest a gentle conversation, and ask him what he meant. You don't have to leave emotion out of it at that point. You were there. You were disturbed to hear him say that. You would like to be a better professional. Does he have issues with your performance? Or did he mean it in a more general sense. In which case you might coach him towards some better language so that in the future he doesn't stick his foot in his funny little doctor mouth.
If that does not produce anything, then I'd say chain of command is in order, and right on up it. But before you escalate to that, I'd say give it a chance for some one on one communication with him in the most positive, but non-confrontational, way you can muster.
Just my opinion, but if I had to walk around trying to interpret everything a doctor said to me all day, I don't think I'd have any time to figure out what else I was supposed to be doing.
There is NO excuse for "poor communication skills" at that level and at that age! I don't think "coaching" is the nurses' responsibility.
If it is, I'll last five minutes. I've been around too long to start training 40+ year olds how to behave. I think I might have gotten up and walked out. No one should have to listen to that. I would have had to leave before I said something in retort that would be equally stupid. And I would definitely file a complaint; at the very least, I'd approach my manager and I would ask this nut what he meant by his statement (professionally, mind you, and definitely away from the patient). But no one should be forced to look incompetent and be patronized - and in this case this guy has no reason to do this to this nurse, based solely on what we're told here.
I agree with the non-confrontational suggestion, but expecting a nurse to be an interpreter is a bit of stretch to me. To me, that sounds as though nurses are being reduced to nursery school teachers trying to make sense of a scuffle on the playground. For crying out loud - nurses are professionals, not babysitters.
I don't think I'm making myself very clear; it's late and I haven't felt well today, but this whole issue has really gotten to me.
It's C. Everett, by the way. As a friend I would not want you to misspeak this man's name and find yourself embarrassed by your mistake - God knows we've all had errors like that and know how awful it makes you feel!
This is a very interesting discussion, but I couldnt get passed the point that you called him Dr. Plankton at church no less! I am very easily distracted from the real point in almost any discussion, so nothing personal.
Any way, had to look up plankton. and found this:
The name plankton is derived from the Greek term πλαγκτον, meaning "wanderer" or "drifter". While some forms of plankton are capable of independent movement and can swim up to several hundreds of metres vertically in a single day (a behavior called diel vertical migration), their horizontal position is primarily determined by currents in the body of water they inhabit. This is in contrast to nekton organisms that can swim against the ambient flow of the water environment and control their horizontal position (e.g. squid, fish, krill and marine mammals).
So does this mean he is a squidlike guy who goes with the flow in ecclesiastical environments?
LOL!!! I wondered about the reference and just assumed she/he considers this guy to be completely insignificant and very, very small....much like....well, plankton!! :rotfl:
This is a very interesting discussion, but I couldnt get passed the point that you called him Dr. Plankton at church no less! I am very easily distracted from the real point in almost any discussion, so nothing personal.
Any way, had to look up plankton. and found this:
The name plankton is derived from the Greek term πλαγκτον, meaning "wanderer" or "drifter". While some forms of plankton are capable of independent movement and can swim up to several hundreds of metres vertically in a single day (a behavior called diel vertical migration), their horizontal position is primarily determined by currents in the body of water they inhabit. This is in contrast to nekton organisms that can swim against the ambient flow of the water environment and control their horizontal position (e.g. squid, fish, krill and marine mammals).
So does this mean he is a squidlike guy who goes with the flow in ecclesiastical environments?
LOL.................no it is the name of one of the characters on the Sponge Bob cartoon series that is green with one eye, an antenna, and has exreme "short man syndrome". I really should call him catfish b/c he is mostly a bottom dweller!!
LOL!!! I wondered about the reference and just assumed she/he considers this guy to be completely insignificant and very, very small....much like....well, plankton!! :rotfl:
You are right on the money..............it is from Sponge Bob cartoon character.
Thanks to all who have responded. I will leave the feelings out and go with the facts only in this incident.
As far as I know, this Doc has never had a problem in the past with my assessments. I have never been told of them from my NM and usually she will tell us if there is a problem, heck, the Doctors themselves will tell ya. I sometimes take an hour to do the initial assessment and history so I can get a good idea of what's going on with in the patient, family and formulate my plan of care on my assessment. I also tend to do quite a bit of teaching during this time as well.
This doctor does have a really bad bedside manner, but, he also thinks that he is the "Divine" one reincarnated at times. I generally get along with this Doctor, but he has a hard time on realizing that he needs to change how he interacts with the pts, families, and staff. He has had more complaints than I care to mention yet the hospital continues to keep him and we continue to loose admissions because of him. He is at times, IMO, a dangerous doctor and I am always questioning his orders with the CN to get clarification. IMO, he has every right to ask the same basic questions as the nurse b/c it is his license as well, but how he communicates his needs is the part that is always questioned. But as someone said, to cause more anxiety by that statement is unacceptable.
I have written the report up and will be sending it to the NM, DON, QA, CFO, and CEO after I talk to the Doctor himself. I don't expect an apology but will clear my chest with him and will try to remain calm while doing so but none the less, the complaint will be filed tomorrow afternoon.
LOL!!! I wondered about the reference and just assumed she/he considers this guy to be completely insignificant and very, very small....much like....well, plankton!! :rotfl:
Yeah, but you had the advantage on me, since you already knew what a plankton is, smarty pants!
:devil: Then what does the spouse do? Comes out to the hall, where I have been listening to the whole conversation and says to me "How I can trust you as his nurse if Doctor doesn't?". Myself and another nurse explained to her that it was not out of the normal to ask the same types of questions and reassured her that we were competent of providing care for her dh.
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buddiage
378 Posts
You don't have to put personal feelings into it. It would be assumed that you did feel insulted. The facts, without the feelings interjected, infer that:
-hospital looks incompetent and unsafe to patient
-gauranteed bad publicity, no matter the outcome, because the pt. and family will tell everyone they care about of the "unsafe hospital" they were at, so that they don't "ever go there"
- the doctor doesn't feel it's necessary to protect the reputation of the hospital. The docs are what pull people to the hospital. Would you want an advertising agency doing your commercials for you while they tell their collegues that your establishment...uh...sucks?
Yeah, I think the hospital would like to know about something so potentially damaging.