This vile expression implies that experienced nurses do not treat new nurses kindly. My first problem with the statement is that it’s a generalization implying that all nurses are like that. Interestingly, whenever I hear someone utter the expression, I always say, “I don’t do that. Do you?” The person making the statement always says, “Oh no, I don’t, but many others do.” I’ve never heard even one nurse own up to doing this, although some nurses are willing to indict the entire profession. Every time that statement is repeated, it causes harm and casts a dark shadow on every nurse. Say anything enough, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Please note that by moderator consensus some of the "Nurses Eat Their Young" posts will be referred to this thread where there can be an ongoing discussion, rather than several threads saying the same thing.
To students and new grads that are having problems with nurses, please take a moment to read the above link. Is it really the entire profession, every single nurse, or do you need help with one or a few nurses? We will be glad to help you in dealing with those people, but let bury the phrase "Nurses Eat Their Young".
To experienced nurses who claim our profession eats it's young, please take a moment to read it as well and think about it. Also take time to teach, be friendly and nurturing to the new nurse and students on your unit.
Hi Tweety - yeah, you are right - there is lots to say about the wonderfulness of nurses, especially the ones who belong to allnurses.com, of course.
Consider this - the fact that some of us get our dander up irom mistreatment is probably a good thing. After all, before any other skill, at least to my mind, nurses must be mighty advocates for their patients. At the same time it really is a drag to focus on the negative, and it is exhausting to dwell on it. One of the very first scenarios I witnessed as a fresh student on med-surg was an LPN gettting heavy with an MD about his discharging a poor guy with MR who had a fever after gall bladder removal. I thought, oh, my!, that took cajones. Well, this woman really knew her stuff, but she was also pretty tough to work with. But ya know, I will never forget how she rallied for the patient. Not only should this guy not get discharged with a possible post op infection, the fact he had MR and was in a group home would make it even more dicey for him.
Tweety it is assumed that acts of a few bad nurses do not represent the entire profession....so why diminish another person's experience....even a single act is wrong. You are right it doesn't sound like the nurses on your unit "eat their young" but a segment of the profession does. So I will start using the phrase "SOME nurses eat their young" By changing the phrase you so revile the emphasis is placed on the perpetrators of bad behavior....the stigma should be attached to those who support and participate....truly the bad apples are out numbered by the good eggs.
This is not unlike a phenomenon that happens where I live, which is a tourist destination for New Yorkers. Most times, tourists are fine, it's just that that one bad apple will do something that people talk about, ad nauseum for years and years, like the tourist standing in a long line in the market. She turns to a local and says, "Can't you people shop on the weekdays?" Meanwhile, our economy wouldn't exist without tourism.
Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.
I believe it is not a nurse issue. It is an issue that happens that is negative amongst people. I hate to say this but many women (who are insecure, unhappy, and or negative) are threatened by each other. This happens in nursing, the business world, and other professions where there is competition.
It happens but not the majority of the time (thank God). It happens when management lets it happens. Sometimes it suits a managers ego or needs when there is a devide and conquer attitude.
Been there (in those negative environments) and moved on. How do I deal with it? I refuse to be a part of it. One day at a time I embrace my colleagues, nurture where I may be of assitance, and look for ways to keep myself nurtured and positive.
IMHO.....:)
B,
Yep, I'm a guy.
I am not a sexist.
I am a realist.
Nightingale sums it up completely in her first paragraph.
What's more, for the other poster wishing the cliche would die.....
Well, the reason it keeps on living, hashed to/fro for eternity... see Nightingale's first paragraph.
I for one would like to see the cliche die a quick messy death.
It's not gonna happen though.
On the management issue, well... like I posted in not long ago....
"Your turn", Seniority, bids, and favors are absolute foolish ways to promote people into management positions,
but sometimes seems to be the gold standard for this field.
Gotta have ICU experience to work ICU...
Gotta have OR experience to work OR...
OH, but if you wanna be a MANAGER, simply get a bottom level job in a CLINICAL capacity, and sleep in a corner till your "turn" comes up.
So what you end up with is the angry, catty, or emotional employee who has now "won" the imaginary battle, and goes about doing things "my way", and in control of allowing the crap they were part of to continue. Why?
[prepare for the worst answer ever given]
Because that's the way it's always been. [or the way it is].
Change is tough, and no one wants to buck the dull mindless drone of daily life,
and be the center of unhappy people's attention.
I don't think the average way things operate will change anytime soon, so beating of the lifeless horse will continue.
I had a moment of pride yesterday when I was talking to an instructor about an unexpected student she placed on my unit to do her precepting. Unfortunately I didn't think I could accommodate another student, but it worked out. She said "the students love your unit and there's a high demand of students wanting to work this unit." Next week a student did a clinical on my unit is coming to spend the day with me for his leadership class...his choice. Doesn't sound like "nurses eat their young" to me. :)
Awww, that's so cool!!! What a great thing to hear!
Tweety it is assumed that acts of a few bad nurses do not represent the entire profession....so why diminish another person's experience....even a single act is wrong. You are right it doesn't sound like the nurses on your unit "eat their young" but a segment of the profession does. So I will start using the phrase "SOME nurses eat their young" By changing the phrase you so revile the emphasis is placed on the perpetrators of bad behavior....the stigma should be attached to those who support and participate....truly the bad apples are out numbered by the good eggs.
If it's presumed that it's only a few bad nurses, why perpetuate the expression. Why do nursing instructors teach their students "Beware because nurses eat their young?". Why not come to the forum and say "I've been mistreated by the experienced nurses on my unit." Why when a student meets dozens of nurses in their day that are neutral in their interactions with them do they still cry "nurses eat their young" when one mistreats them.
Even if it's every single nurse in a toxic unit, it's still unfair to me.
I apologize if any feels that I've dismissed their experiences. (Please find where I've done that and point it out to me please.)
I also apologize if I'm giving the impression that I think there aren't nurses that eat their young. (Again, please find those post and point them out to me.) I know that there are by reading the posts here.
I'm not sure how I can state it without stepping on the toes of someone who has experienced a unit where the nurses eat their young or by sounding self-righteous by pleading my case over and over and over again. I take exception to the phrase "nurses eat their young". It's just an unfair statement about myself and my most of my peers.
I frequently get calls from the Holding Room nurse complaining in a snotty tone about what wasn't done for her pre-op patients. I've gone down there in person many times and am met with cold stares and snotty attitudes by several nurses down there. Would it be fair of me to come to this board and state "OR Nurses treat floor nurses like crap.......". I guarantee if I started a thread that degraded OR nurses I would be flamed to threads "how dare you judge...I'm an OR nurse and I............".
Thanks for listening.
Again, I apologize if I've dismissed someones experience by denying that there aren't nurses that eat their young. I don't think I have, but I apologize if that's the impression.
I don't think the average way things operate will change anytime soon, so beating of the lifeless horse will continue.
It's a bit of a bummer, but true.
Have a great weekend all,
rb
RB:
I think it would be pretty hard to be a male nurse and a sexist!
But yeah, you're right, a lot of the misery comes from the fact that misery loves company. But so does joy. I don't have enough real life experience to get a feel for what kinds of people become managers, but I do know that two friends have turned down management positions because they knew what they would be getting into.
Maybe the eat-their-young expression refuses to die, but we can all choose to NOT be in those environments where it exists. Sometimes this is probably easier said than done. Best we can all do is to not be an example of the expression. But you did hit it on the head - stuck people stick people. And it aint just that - I've said this before in other posts: Many people confuse seriousness with humorlessness. It just ain't so.
Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.
I don't think the average way things operate will change anytime soon, so beating of the lifeless horse will continue.
It's a bit of a bummer, but true.
Have a great weekend all,
rb
RB:
I think it would be pretty hard to be a male nurse and a sexist!
But yeah, you're right, a lot of the misery comes from the fact that misery loves company. But so does joy. I don't have enough real life experience to get a feel for what kinds of people become managers, but I do know that two friends have turned down management positions because they knew what they would be getting into.
Maybe the eat-their-young expression refuses to die, but we can all choose to NOT be in those environments where it exists. Sometimes this is probably easier said than done. Best we can all do is to not be an example of the expression. But you did hit it on the head - stuck people stick people. And it aint just that - I've said this before in other posts: Many people confuse seriousness with humorlessness. It just ain't so.
Diahni
Well said, and I agree. If you don't like your company, then find better friends! There is nothing wrong with getting out of a testy environment and heading for another job in greener pastures. My wife stands and preaches about how it's all the same no matter where one works and there is no such thing as "greener", only swapping one misery for another. I say so what. Things that annoy her may be things that I find absolutely hilarious, so maybe she hates the place and I love it.
But, that's not the issue, the real issue is this:
People hate moving. People hate change. People hate going into a new job. People hate feeling like a noob when they change jobs. People hate being surrounded by strangers.
People want to be in control of things around them.
What does all that add up to? I call it a *wall*.
So now you have people that like what they do, but hate their job. They can't get out because of their wall. So they are trapped inside and must suffer, at their own hand no less, and as you said, misery loves company.
Too many people sit around and wonder why things can't change, or why people won't change or why the company won't change and they suffer and get crusty.
Here's a clue for you folks.... waiting is reactive living. You will be at everyone else or the company's mercy.
EFFECT change if you're not happy. Be proactive! If you can't effect change, then bubba it's time to get out the hammer, knock down your wall and escape.
It really is OK to change jobs and there really are good jobs out there!
Listen, I'm the class clown, always have been, but I also draw a bold line between work and play. Everything has a place, everything in it's place. Leave me a mess, I'll make you to clean it before I accept the assignment. You'll not get a mess from me and if timing puts me a mess during shift change, then woohoo, time and a half for light housework! What easier money is there than that?
Anyway, yes I do see so much catty backstabbing and ill will towads new grads and seasoned RN's as well.
If it isn't the crusty old sarge nurse demanding bow-down respect from these cocky young'uns, it's the former-cheerleader-sears-fashion-model-turned-RN running around with a sharpened spirit stick; looking to drive it into somone's chest for not being on "their team".
And to add a cherry on top, you then get the intensive-chair-nursing-good-ol'-boy turned RN that thinks everyone puts way too much emphasis on this personal care and touchy-feely business, ending their shift in a total mess with things half done, proudly proclaiming, "the pt is still alive and I'm goin' fishin' ".
Makes me head hurt just watching... lol...
In the end, I have to say that if management simply stopped operating on emotion and disciplined this foolish behavior, it wouldn't be the norm that it is.
Well said, and I agree. If you don't like your company, then find better friends!
Like Hemingway said, "I think someone is boring me. I think it's me." Or something like that.
There is nothing wrong with getting out of a testy environment and heading for another job in greener pastures. My wife stands and preaches about how it's all the same no matter where one works and there is no such thing as "greener", only swapping one misery for another. I say so what. Things that annoy her may be things that I find absolutely hilarious, so maybe she hates the place and I love it.
Right! I worked for a guy who was a real nutty professor with a bad temper - I found him fascinating, but not too many could take it. But I agree, we all have to find the atmosphere that works for us. My husband has been in social services for years and has always had mostly female colleagues - he loves it.
But, that's not the issue, the real issue is this:
People hate moving. People hate change. People hate going into a new job. People hate feeling like a noob when they change jobs. People hate being surrounded by strangers.
People want to be in control of things around them.
What does all that add up to? I call it a *wall*.
Not EVERYBODY - I love novelty - the idea of being in the same job with the same people for a long time would make me crazy with boredom.
Here's a clue for you folks.... waiting is reactive living. You will be at everyone else or the company's mercy.
EFFECT change if you're not happy. Be proactive! If you can't effect change, then bubba it's time to get out the hammer, knock down your wall and escape.
It really is OK to change jobs and there really are good jobs out there!
Will you get me one, please?
Listen, I'm the class clown, always have been, but I also draw a bold line between work and play. Everything has a place, everything in it's place. Leave me a mess, I'll make you to clean it before I accept the assignment. You'll not get a mess from me and if timing puts me a mess during shift change, then woohoo, time and a half for light housework! What easier money is there than that?
Not too many nurses would call nursing easy money!
Anyway, yes I do see so much catty backstabbing and ill will towads new grads and seasoned RN's as well.
It's such a bore - life is too short to be on attack mode. Some people ought to "own" their unhappiness rather than project.
And to add a cherry on top, you then get the intensive-chair-nursing-good-ol'-boy turned RN that thinks everyone puts way too much emphasis on this personal care and touchy-feely business, ending their shift in a total mess with things half done, proudly proclaiming, "the pt is still alive and I'm goin' fishin' ".
Ha Ha! As a general statement, I'd say guys bring a different spin to nursing, which is okay. There's room for everybody. That is, except for one creature - the "It ain't my job" person!
Makes me head hurt just watching... lol...
In the end, I have to say that if management simply stopped operating on emotion and disciplined this foolish behavior, it wouldn't be the norm that it is.
rb
OK, gotta admit there is a whole lot of female hormones around in a predominantly female environment. My own unofficial survey tells me that men who have all girls change quite a bit - for reasons of survival. Ever see that comic Jeff Foxworthy talk about what it's like to live as the only guy in a family? That said, more men in the profession means nothing but positive changes, I think. I have a daughter who has always hung out with guys. To hear her talk about why is pretty funny. I don't think women are any more insecure, unhappy, whatever, than men. It's just that other people know about it more.
I definately agree that if you swap one set of miseries, you're like to get another whole new set. Which is why I've stuck out the bad times where I currently work and am reaping the rewards of 15 years of service (more vacation and top pay).
Knowing when to leave is an important skill to learn. However, I'm not buying into the idea that nursing is a life misery full of catty miserable people no matter where you go.
I guess it's a matter of how one views things. If I look hard enough I'm going to find plenty of catty, gossiping backstabbing people where I work. I'd like to think that most of us really are good people wanting to do the right thing most of the time, but we all have our moments.
Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.
Diahni ... clarification... what I was saying; easy money is to me, being in OT after my shift, having given report THEN cleaning up the room, and tying up loose ends for whomever is taking over... piddling around for $37/hr without a patient to worry about is easy money to me and appreciated by the oncoming RN!
And on the 'people' issues, yes, not everyone fits the mold.. I'm a non-moldy guy. [pun intended]
I like to switch it around as much as possible, move around, float to other units, try different specialtys just for the heck of it, etc. Keeps it interesting!
Tweety,
Old school pension mentality is dead. [unfortunately]
It was shot in the head, execution style, by corporate America.
It used to be one could work a career at a company, and be rewarded and protected by said company. You know, *loyalty* from both parties.
While sticking it out still gets you money ultimately, when the chips are down, the corporation will excise you like a tumor.
What I wouldn't give to find a place that actually cared about the people working there, but in this day of Travel, PRN, Per Diem, Casual, Flex work, it's just a pipe dream. So I decided that I couldn't beat 'em, and joined 'em.
I also don't believe that it's bad everywhere. There's plenty of happy nurses out there, but the bad ones just seem to be so extreme and stand out like a sore thumb. I've worked in units that I thought were the bomb, and floated out to another unit only to find myself begging to go home early to get out of the fire.
It's all about the team and the management.
I came into nursing from respiratory. Trust me, one thing I miss is roaming the whole facility being able to avoid the witches and warlocks. I could list the crusty people we're talking about by name. "If it weren't for x, y, z, that would be the best unit in the hospital...." It's a unique perspective.
I know what you mean. Pension and lifetime employment is a thing of the past. It's the same everywhere. You here of long-term employees in big business being let go just prior to retirement.
I definately am looking out for myself. But also look at the positive benefits of being loyal: I have a manager who trusts me, who gives me maximum salary, a good schedule, who stands by me when I make independent decisions, time off when asked with no questions asked, thousands of education dollars, on and on and on. So in the end when they kick me to the curve, I've gotten over on them as well and I will have no regrets. I have no expectations that when the do do hits the fan that I won't be tossed out like yesterdays news. Still I hope there will be no regrets for me staying loyal and giving them my best.
Of course, I could be miserable and only focus on nurses x, y and z.
Having just been off work for several weeks because of illness, I have found what a great place I work for and how everybody has shown me kindness. I was contemplating moving but I think I recognise that I have a lot more to achieve where I work.
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Diahni
627 Posts
I thought I saw a Puddy Cat!
Hi Tweety - yeah, you are right - there is lots to say about the wonderfulness of nurses, especially the ones who belong to allnurses.com, of course.
Consider this - the fact that some of us get our dander up irom mistreatment is probably a good thing. After all, before any other skill, at least to my mind, nurses must be mighty advocates for their patients. At the same time it really is a drag to focus on the negative, and it is exhausting to dwell on it. One of the very first scenarios I witnessed as a fresh student on med-surg was an LPN gettting heavy with an MD about his discharging a poor guy with MR who had a fever after gall bladder removal. I thought, oh, my!, that took cajones. Well, this woman really knew her stuff, but she was also pretty tough to work with. But ya know, I will never forget how she rallied for the patient. Not only should this guy not get discharged with a possible post op infection, the fact he had MR and was in a group home would make it even more dicey for him.
I did, I did see a Puddy Tat!
Diahni