DO LVNs GET RESPECT?

postmortem_cowboy · Feb 19, 2007

"I think some of preceptions of LVN's start in nursing school. I am an LVN in an ADN program and there have been a few comments made in class by the instructors regarding LVN's and we have had questions on exams regarding delegation that made LVN's seem like all they can do is bed baths."

Ick... god that's a definate misrepresentation of what we do.

Wayne.

allnurses Guide · Feb 19, 2007

I understand what you are saying but I have to say that I think you may be expecting too much from a new grad.
I expect a new grad (RN or LPN) to have a basic working familarity with those skills you mentioned, but very few new grads, if any, are going to be independently proficient with those skills upon graduation.
That is what orientation and internship is for.
Proficiency at putting down NG tubes and starting IV's only comes from repetitive experience. Very few nursing students in American nursing schools will report getting repetitive opportunities in practicing and demonstrating these skills throughout their clinicals to the point where they could start an IV or put down an NG tube independently as a new grad.
Now if the new grad RN was previously an LPN on a med/surg unit for some time or perhaps a paramedic, then I too would have expected proficiency in basic nursing skills (or even more advanced skills for that matter) as new RN's due to their prior professional experience.
But for those who are brand new to nursing who had no prior nursing/healthcare background, most are just not going to be that good in the beginning and we have to be patient with them and walk them through it a few times until they can do it without any help, but even then, they may still move slow as a snail for a while. :chuckle
I know that I had to start a lot of IV's on the floor before I became any good at it.

I agree with this.

NG tubes take practice as do starting IV's. No one magically appears with these skills w/o practice and nursing school just doesn't do it.

And I don't agree with making blanket statements like "you have to be a CNA or LVN prior to be an RN in order to be a good nurse".

steph

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 20, 2007

I understand what you mean.
When I was studying for the NCLEX-RN, I kept getting the delegation questions wrong in the beginning when the questions were about appropriate assignments for LPN/LVN's.
And I had been an LVN for 7 years at that time!
I couldn't figure out why I kept getting them wrong.
It seemed as if the patient in question had anything so much as a simple saline lock in their left arm that they were supposed to be assigned to an RN and not an LPN/LVN.
Once I shifted gears and basically assumed that LPN/LVN's on board exam questions were little more than nursing assistants who could give Tylenol and insert foleys, I started answering the delegation questions "correctly".

I think that the reason this is done is to prepare the RN to do NCLEX-RN. I do believe, though that schools should further explain the scope of practice to each nursing discipline because I was under the impression in LPN school that we were not allowed to do certain things, come to find out that we can at the workplace. Same thing with nursing assistants. The scope of practice for nursing assistants is broader now, but not according to NCLEX-PN/RN. I can see how you may have had trouble in the beginning of your studies, until you had to place a different assumption in your head in order to pass the exam.

I had a question during my studies asking something about a nursing assistant doing a fingerstick. I used to do them as an aide so I assumed that it was correct, but I got it wrong, because according to the world of NCLEX-PN, that is the job of a licensed person.

allnurses Guide · Feb 20, 2007

I think that the reason this is done is to prepare the RN to do NCLEX-RN. I do believe, though that schools should further explain the scope of practice to each nursing discipline because I was under the impression in LPN school that we were not allowed to do certain things, come to find out that we can at the workplace. Same thing with nursing assistants. The scope of practice for nursing assistants is broader now, but not according to NCLEX-PN/RN. I can see how you may have had trouble in the beginning of your studies, until you had to place a different assumption in your head in order to pass the exam.
I had a question during my studies asking something about a nursing assistant doing a fingerstick. I used to do them as an aide so I assumed that it was correct, but I got it wrong, because according to the world of NCLEX-PN, that is the job of a licensed person.

Where I work, fingersticks ARE the job of a licensed person. CNA's cannot do them. Or foleys. Or wound care.

steph

postmortem_cowboy · Feb 20, 2007

I agree with this.
NG tubes take practice as do starting IV's. No one magically appears with these skills w/o practice and nursing school just doesn't do it.
And I don't agree with making blanket statements like "you have to be a CNA or LVN prior to be an RN in order to be a good nurse".
steph

And I totally agree with that. Some LVN students I was in nursing school with that were CNA's were awesome, and some were lazy, some that had no experience whatsoever were better nurses than those of use that had some experience. And then there were those students who stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't give a rats behind about the patients, they just wanted the license to make good money, and that was ever so evident.

And yes, nursing school only provides the foundations, the how to, not the "how best to." So I totally agree on that wholeheatedly. When I started, I couldn't start an IV for nothin'. Now with having to drop 20-30 lines a day in a busy ER, it's just second nature. Alot of the times too, new nurses don't ask their peers for help or suggestions. Personally, i'm inquisitive, I've learned more from my RN's on the job that make what I do alot easier, than I did in school. It got to the point where I had other nurses asking me to start their IV's and drop in their NG tubes, cause I learned things here and there and got pretty good at it.

Respect is a two way street if you expect it, walk the walk. I've seen alot of LVN's that make me want to vomit in my short career, lazy, put off their patient load on anyone they can, wander the hospital and can't be found, go and hide somewhere and only come out on the floor when they absolutely have to. It's ridiculous, and no RN should have to kiss butt on anyone just to get them to do their job. But unfortunately there are those types of people out there that give all the good LVN's who are smart, know their stuff and that do their job and are willing to help anyone out that asks and sometimes volunteer help when not asked a bad name. But then again there's always those RN's that have that "view" of what we do, and look at us like a CNA, and nothing changes their perception of us at all. I've seen both sides of it. Personally I don't take anyone who looks at what my name badge states as far as my licensing is concerned all too seriously. And I really don't take too seriously them giving no weight to the type of nurse I am either simply because I am an "LVN." There are things i'm licensed to do, and there are things i'm not licensed to do. Just because i'm not licensed to do this or that, doesn't make me any less of a nurse, and surely doesn't make me a bad nurse either, it just makes me/us not an RN.

Wayne.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 20, 2007

I think that the whole thing with this is that many LPNs (myself included) have been taught all of these skills, told that we are nurses, and yet, walk into the field and are not acknowledged that we, too are nurses. We are not always compensated by pay or able to practice all that we were taught to do. And, there is a fine line between "assessment" and "data gathering". It is hard to tell the difference. We see the word "assessment" in our textbooks, but are told that we can't do them, taught about care plans and yet, it is either that we can't do them or that they have to be co-signed...it does cause confusion.

allnurses Guide · Feb 20, 2007

And I totally agree with that. Some LVN students I was in nursing school with that were CNA's were awesome, and some were lazy, some that had no experience whatsoever were better nurses than those of use that had some experience. And then there were those students who stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't give a rats behind about the patients, they just wanted the license to make good money, and that was ever so evident.
And yes, nursing school only provides the foundations, the how to, not the "how best to." So I totally agree on that wholeheatedly. When I started, I couldn't start an IV for nothin'. Now with having to drop 20-30 lines a day in a busy ER, it's just second nature. Alot of the times too, new nurses don't ask their peers for help or suggestions. Personally, i'm inquisitive, I've learned more from my RN's on the job that make what I do alot easier, than I did in school. It got to the point where I had other nurses asking me to start their IV's and drop in their NG tubes, cause I learned things here and there and got pretty good at it.
Respect is a two way street if you expect it, walk the walk. I've seen alot of LVN's that make me want to vomit in my short career, lazy, put off their patient load on anyone they can, wander the hospital and can't be found, go and hide somewhere and only come out on the floor when they absolutely have to. It's ridiculous, and no RN should have to kiss butt on anyone just to get them to do their job. But unfortunately there are those types of people out there that give all the good LVN's who are smart, know their stuff and that do their job and are willing to help anyone out that asks and sometimes volunteer help when not asked a bad name. But then again there's always those RN's that have that "view" of what we do, and look at us like a CNA, and nothing changes their perception of us at all. I've seen both sides of it. Personally I don't take anyone who looks at what my name badge states as far as my licensing is concerned all too seriously. And I really don't take too seriously them giving no weight to the type of nurse I am either simply because I am an "LVN." There are things i'm licensed to do, and there are things i'm not licensed to do. Just because i'm not licensed to do this or that, doesn't make me any less of a nurse, and surely doesn't make me a bad nurse either, it just makes me/us not an RN.
Wayne.

Hi Wayne - wanna come work at my hospital?

steph

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 20, 2007

Wayne, I like how you worded this. We ARE nurses, with a more limited scope of practice than RNs.

And I totally agree with that. Some LVN students I was in nursing school with that were CNA's were awesome, and some were lazy, some that had no experience whatsoever were better nurses than those of use that had some experience. And then there were those students who stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't give a rats behind about the patients, they just wanted the license to make good money, and that was ever so evident.
And yes, nursing school only provides the foundations, the how to, not the "how best to." So I totally agree on that wholeheatedly. When I started, I couldn't start an IV for nothin'. Now with having to drop 20-30 lines a day in a busy ER, it's just second nature. Alot of the times too, new nurses don't ask their peers for help or suggestions. Personally, i'm inquisitive, I've learned more from my RN's on the job that make what I do alot easier, than I did in school. It got to the point where I had other nurses asking me to start their IV's and drop in their NG tubes, cause I learned things here and there and got pretty good at it.
Respect is a two way street if you expect it, walk the walk. I've seen alot of LVN's that make me want to vomit in my short career, lazy, put off their patient load on anyone they can, wander the hospital and can't be found, go and hide somewhere and only come out on the floor when they absolutely have to. It's ridiculous, and no RN should have to kiss butt on anyone just to get them to do their job. But unfortunately there are those types of people out there that give all the good LVN's who are smart, know their stuff and that do their job and are willing to help anyone out that asks and sometimes volunteer help when not asked a bad name. But then again there's always those RN's that have that "view" of what we do, and look at us like a CNA, and nothing changes their perception of us at all. I've seen both sides of it. Personally I don't take anyone who looks at what my name badge states as far as my licensing is concerned all too seriously. And I really don't take too seriously them giving no weight to the type of nurse I am either simply because I am an "LVN." There are things i'm licensed to do, and there are things i'm not licensed to do. Just because i'm not licensed to do this or that, doesn't make me any less of a nurse, and surely doesn't make me a bad nurse either, it just makes me/us not an RN.
Wayne.

postmortem_cowboy · Feb 20, 2007

HAHA... your all the way up north from me... lol... if you were down south i'd say where do I put the application in at... lol...

Wayne.

postmortem_cowboy · Feb 20, 2007

Wayne, I like how you worded this. We ARE nurses, with a more limited scope of practice than RNs.

Yes I do agree! Personally, I tend to see the humor in things. It's my opinion that an RN that doesn't like LVN's, is afraid. Either they're afraid we're better at what we can do than they are at what we can't do. Or, they see us as a threat. I've also seen alot of RN's that value the good LVN's and could care less what cliff the lazy one's take a flying leap off of.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't dislike RN's, I dislike hateful people that base their opinions off of false information and silly misconceptions of others. If they do that with their co-workers, it makes me wonder what type of nurse they truely are.

To me, I could really care less if this LVN likes me or that RN likes me or not. I'm not on a shift for a popularity contest. I know i'm a good nurse. May not be able to push this med or hang this piggyback, but nonetheless, still a good nurse just like the rest of you here.

Wayne.

MelodyRNurse · Feb 20, 2007

I just got my LPN last month, people such as friends and family will ask me how schools going and I tell them Ive finished the LPN, they often respond with "So how long wil it take you to be a nurse?"

allnurses Guide · Feb 20, 2007

HAHA... your all the way up north from me... lol... if you were down south i'd say where do I put the application in at... lol...
Wayne.

Oh well, our loss.

steph