Do Dept head meetings violate patient privacy ?

[downsouthlaff, LPN]

The practice at many nursing homes if not all, involve some type of daily meeting where the Administrator meets in private with department coordinators at the facility, (DON, SSD, Activity Director, Housekeeping Sup.) to have round table discussion about issues at the facility. One contract nurse at my facility recently brought up a good point regarding HIPAA, and that nursing/healthcare issues brought up regarding patient condition in these meetings in front of staff such as the Housekeeping supervisor, Activity Director, maintenance repairman, May actually violate HIPAA and the patients right to privacy of the information is not needed or doesn’t pertain to the particular department. What are your thoughts on this issue ? Seems to me these issues should be kept between DON and nursing staff out of privacy concerns if the issue is not relevant to the other department coordinators job. 

[autism4life, ADN, LPN, RN]

I often pondered this as well. As a past member of the management team in LTC, I sat in on these daily meetings day after day and listened to many a conversations about patients that I often found questionable in light of those attending. It went further than patients at times, where management would also discuss employees, including health informations as well as disciplinary actions.  

One time I spoke up, and addressed a conversation, that I felt should be between HR and the administrator, rather than the full team, and was reprimanded post haste. 

I am very glad I am no longer apart of the LTC scene, as I was often left uncomfortable with many aspects of the job. 

[downsouthlaff, LPN]

Thanks for your reply. My biggest concern is if the DNS brings up something personal such as a personal medical condition about a resident in this type of meeting in front of a staff member like the Dietary Manager, Housekeeping Sup, or the Activity Director, how can that appropriate in regards to HIPAA because these departments have no good reason to learn of these sensitive matters regarding the patients. Our Certified Nursing Assistants aren’t even allowed to know if their patient has an infectious disease per HIPAA laws. 

[litbitblack, ASN, RN]

We have a admin staff meeting then a clinical meeting right after so the ones not involved in care do not get the patient info

[downsouthlaff, LPN]

22 minutes ago, litbitblack said:

We have a admin staff meeting then a clinical meeting right after so the ones not involved in care do not get the patient info

Sounds great in theory. In my brief stent as MDS coordinator we also had a nursing staff meeting after the initial dept head meeting but somehow, they still brought up clinical information. 

[NurseBlaq]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:23 PM, downsouthlaff said:

Our Certified Nursing Assistants aren’t even allowed to know if their patient has an infectious disease per HIPAA laws. 

Why not? They're in contact with the patients and should know this information because they're at direct risk. This was one of my gripes as a CNA and exactly why I treated all the patients as if they had everything on the earth to catch. I never gained brownie points either because I was always asking who had what to protect myself and my children at home. It's not like they're going to tell the world but being the ones who are on the front lines providing direct care, often including incontinence care and showers where they may come across open skin, is exactly why they should know. OK, off my soapbox. This just happens to be one of my pet peeves. Just my $0.02.

[downsouthlaff, LPN]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:21 AM, NurseBlaq said:

Why not? They're in contact with the patients and should know this information because they're at direct risk. This was one of my gripes as a CNA and exactly why I treated all the patients as if they had everything on the earth to catch. I never gained brownie points either because I was always asking who had what to protect myself and my children at home. It's not like they're going to tell the world but being the ones who are on the front lines providing direct care, often including incontinence care and showers where they may come across open skin, is exactly why they should know. OK, off my soapbox. This just happens to be one of my pet peeves. Just my $0.02.

I agree entirely. One of my pet peeves as a CNA for a couple years also. We were told that they can only know the type of precautions pertinent to the disease, but not the disease itself. I also think they should have a right to know, especially before an Activity Director or Social Worker would know but hey I just follow the rules 

[Golden_RN, MSN]

When I used to attend a similar daily meeting we only had nursing leadership & administration attend.  I think the HIPAA concern is valid.  The only time we have meetings with ALL dept heads is during survey or some other big event that affects the whole building.

I'm concerned that the CNAs aren't informed of infectious diseases.  They're closer to the resident than anyone else.