Do crnas deserve that much salary?

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Don't take me wrong, in Houston, Texas CRNAs stock their rooms, prepare the meds, MDAs see the patients sometimes. CRNAs are told by MDAs that they don't have to see the patient, so you bring the patient to their room. CRNAs hand the drugs to MDAs, they push the drugs, MDAs let them intubate and then leave. CRNAs manage take vitals do the paperwork MDAs come for emergencies, if there is something wrong MDAs take over. Any nurse can do what CRNAs do with the exception of intubation that can be learned by a nurse. My questions do CRNAs have to go to school for 3 years and get a masters degree for this? Do they deserve 220k salary when they don't do anything autonomously? I see a flawed system any thoughts??!!!!

I would doubt those crnas are making that in that setting. Usual is 100k to 170k depending on area and again setting with mdas and area of practice. I see some at 100k in asc settings with no call, others doing hearts, etc at 180k and usually several call days.

Then when independent practice is the higher wages. I am on call 3 or 4 days a week and independent. Yes it is worth it, and not at a nurse wage. Rns are at 30-35 $/hr at a w2 wage. So when u figure hours worked and 1099, crnas are not much more than 2- 2.5 more an hour.

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220k for charting vital signs 30 hours a week? Sign me up please! That would be a stress-free dream come true. I wish my job was that easy.

Where I work there's no MDA to call to my aid. At 3 am, the paramedics arrive in the ED with a limp 3 week old they can't intubate. Who do you think the FP ER doc calls? I'm the only possibility of survival for that little girl. If I can't save her, there's no one else within an hour's drive that can. Do you think her mother is wondering if I'm worth my salary at that point? Do you think I ever have to justify my salary to the people I work with?

Then there's the stat call to OB because of a rupturing uterus. Try being sound asleep, and 2 minutes later you're in OB hell, managing the Anesthesia for a 300 lb screaming mother. I have enough time to make sure she's not allergic to my anesthetic, and then I push a concoction of drugs that could possibly kill her. The whole room is in utter chaos. My heart is racing, but you'd never be able to tell from the calm demeanor in my voice and on my face. I then intubate what could easily be a difficult airway. At that point, the baby is already out. What seemed like 10 minutes, was only 30 seconds. MDA nearby to to help me with CV and A-lines? No? Maybe there's an intensivist? No? How about a neonatologist? Still no luck.. The fact is, I assume all those roles in that situation. But, you know who is in there with me? A circulating RN. An OB RN. A neonatal RN. A resp therapist. To that patient and her baby, everyone in that room, including the ob-gyn is worth far more than they make.

Should I mention what I do during daylight hours in the OR?

Honestly, the only time I ever think about this kind of bs salary crap is when I read something like this. I'm not trying to brag, and I certainly have nothing to prove. When I work, I'm thinking about how to best take care of my patient, period. I strive for the perfect anesthetic every time. I don't have time for pissing contests between MDAs, CRNAs, and AAs. All this bull $$$$ about who's qualified to do what, or supervise who, or is worth what salary just distracts from what's really important.

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Hmm, the poster has not self-identified? I'd take bets this is an Ollie. . . .

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Wow that is a hugely incorrect statement. I have worked in a very autonomous ACT model and also independently. That scenario never has happened in my case. I would also like to add that you really have no idea what a CRNA does nor is responsible for. I guess any nurse can walk into an OR and do your circulating or scrubbing job just by watching you do it. Let's use your line of thinking when it comes to your job....I mean after all, aren't you just fetching stuff for the doctor? Come on now! Maybe actually spend a day with a CRNA, not just observe them in a very controlled ACT environment and speak of things you reason have no idea about.

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I'm not sure why you think you are so knowledgeable on the role of a CRNA. I've had several procedures done with only a CRNA, and that is in Houston, Texas. Apparently you do not think think that having the knowledge and skills required to manage a patient that is crashing before a doc comes to "Help" is worth much. If you were the one on that OR table, I think you would change your mind. I have a family member in the Army CRNA program, and it is very competition to get accepted. I think CRNA's are worth every penny they earn.

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Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

I'm not going to address the idiotic OP. I will address a couple of other questions I saw.

1. Yes RNs can intubated. Think "Flight Nurses". :)

2. To the poster who said CRNA and MDA training is different. No, it's exactly the same. Same books, same cases, same central lines, same SG placements, same PNBs. Now i will say that where the difference is in there are more mediocre schools putting out CRNAs who barely meet the minimum requirements. In truth, the initials mean nothing. There are good and bad in both camps.

3. We don't need anesthesiologist to practice. I saw someone posted that CRNAs do "moderate sedation" and can only do general when supervised. i have no idea where the ignorance about CRNA practice comes from. Especially in rural areas, we are the critical care experts. I get called in all the time for trauma or critical ill patients that the FP physicians or NPs in the ER are not equipped to deal with. Every thing from airway to trauma resuscitation to central lines and chest tubes.

Last I want to mention that there are many hundreds of peer reviewed scientific studies that show CRNA (and NP) outcomes are as good or even better than our physician colleagues. There is a reason we are able to practice independently in the vast majority of states.

I'd be happy to answer any question with factual information about CRNA practice, NP practice.

Ron DNAP, CRNA, FNP-C, ENP-BC

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I'm an OR nurse who works with CRNAs every day and who even take weekend call during the day. They work their tails off and doing everything the Anesthesiologist does. Where I'm at the MD sees the patient first but the CRNA always sees his/her patient before we go in to the OR. The CRNAs intubate independently and push their own meds as well. The MD will come in to check and see if they're needed or will be present if it's a particular situation but otherwise the CRNA follows the patient all the way through the periop process. I actually prefer to work more with many of our CRNAs than with some of the MDs. The OP clearly has no idea what they're talking about or has an ax to grind.

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Specializes in Emergency Department.
As a paramedic currently in excelsiors transition to RN program I do not fully know the answer but is intubating a patient within the scope of practice of an RN? I know CRNA's it is, but just a regular RN?

Most "regular" nurses do NOT intubate patients. They're not trained to do it. It's not that intubation isn't in their scope of practice, it's more a lack of training/education in the particular skill. Also, while those of us that are/were Paramedics know, the vast majority of EMT's do NOT intubate either. The EMT Basic doesn't normally have ETI in their skillset/scope of practice. As a Paramedic, this is part of my scope of practice, as is intubation of a tracheal stoma, should that be necessary. Some systems allow for surgical cricothyrotomy by Paramedics as well.

Nurses that do transport usually are trained to do airway management to at least the same standards as the local Paramedics in the area.

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The OP sounds like another petty jealous nurse that always 'wanted' to go to anesthesia school. When you are done getting everything everyone else needs to get the case done maybe you can take a class or two, or was your GPA not high enough to get in? Nurses should support each other and appreciate each other for their skills at every level, not worry about what they are earning. Unless you went through the rigorous training that is required you have no experience base with which to judge.

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Thank you for recognizing, greetings from a hard working CRNA from Norway.

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While the OP's title caught my attention, it was the experienced CRNAs who kept me reading. As an SRNA who will be beginning her clinicals this fall, all of the posts detailing your work experiences bring me so much excitement and pride. (I am chomping at the bit to start my hands on education!)

I'm lucky to be in a program where I will have a great variety of experiences from performing various nerve blocks and spinal anesthesia to general anesthesia for same day to trauma/emergency cases and even some office anesthesia. My greatest hope is be able to start my career where I can use every aspect of my education and practice to the full extent of our scope of practice.

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Specializes in Nurse Anesthesiology.

This thread and a bunch of the posts in it are what's wrong with this profession. People make comments that are ignorant and without actual evidence to back up their opinions. What you see and what actually goes on is very different. A simple search online and doing some of your own research could easily answer your question as to why CRNAs get paid what they do.

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