Do crnas deserve that much salary?

ArrowRN, BSN, RN · May 8, 2016

Don't take me wrong, in Houston Texas crnas stock their rooms, prepare the meds, mdas see the patients sometimes crnas are told by mdas they don't have to see the patient, so you bring the patient to room, crnas hand the drugs to mdas they push the drugs, mdas let them intubate and then leave crnas manage take vitals do the paperwork mdas come for emergence if there is something wrong mdas take over, my question is any nurse can do what crnas do with the exception of intubation that can be learned by a nurse, my questions do crnas have t go to school for 3 years masters degree for this? And deserve 220k salary when they don't do anything autonomously? I see a flawed system any thoughts??!!!!

With comments like this and us putting down ourselves its no wonder nursing salaries have been stagnant for the last 30 years. OP you got no idea what CRNAs do.Did you even ask if the people you observed were possibly Srnas? They spend their last year in didactic training based on my research, also their schooling is the most expensive out of all ARNPs. If you want that pay go ahead and get yourr crna instead of dogging people of your own profession i just hope you dont kill someone because scientists dont even know how or why anesthesia works, one simple mistake and the pt is dead.

Sleepyhollogirl · May 9, 2016

My father is an Anesthesiologist and Professor at Wake Forrest Medical School in Winston Salem NC. Once you get through the cut throat program and are still standing they can choose to work as their own provider in their own practice independently or via a contract through a hospital or agency. Don't forget that they were Nurses first with experience in trauma/ICU required and had to make that climb before they could apply to make the CRNA cut. The job requires brain power, stamina, skills and education that are well deserving of a healthy salary. They are the sole anesthesia providers in nearly all rural hospitals, and the main provider of anesthesia to the men and women serving in the U.S. Armed Forces. Without CRNA's to fill the gap of Anesthesiologists the medically underserved areas couldn't offer obstetrical, surgical, pain management and trauma stabilization services. In some states, CRNAs are the sole providers to nearly 100 percent of the rural hospitals. If you like to google stuff , google that. I'm sure it will come up. They are very micromanaged and have to recertify not only their skills and continue education every year to keep up with the demanding changes with Anesthesia but they also have to prove that they do not have any health issues that would adversely effect their ability to administer anesthesia to a patient or otherwise lose their career. So they take the chance that if their hands become injured or they experience any nerve issues that cause them to shake or have muscular cramping in the hands such as carpel tunnel and so on, they can't practice anymore. Bottom line is , if you are worried about the difference in what you make and a CRNA makes, then you get the education and skills and do it yourself. If you can't make it , then you'll understand why they are paid so well and hopefully carry a fresh perspective and a little more respect for their salary and position.

Bluebolt · May 10, 2016

I think CRNA's deserve a minimum of $200,000 a year gross income in 2016's economical situation. I think if they open up their own practice they should make just as much as any other anesthesia provider in a private practice.

If they are now required to obtain a doctorate which essentially puts their total education at 7 to 8 years. Are in student loan debt of typically >$100,000. Evidenced based research shows the exact same outcomes between themselves as fellow counterpart anesthesia providers. My instinct is to say that MDA's deserve more money but then I can't seem to logically find a reason they should or evidenced based research that would back up why they would, if they literally provide the same service and outcome. They did have to do a miserable (5 years?) residency which pays very little and demands a lot of your time, I feel for them on that.

Although they would probably prefer that option to the 4 years I worked in the ICU anywhere from 40 to 60 hours a week building my resume and clinical experience to even get accepted into CRNA school. I put my hands in orifices without blinking that would send them packing. While they brainstorm excitedly about what ways to hemodynamically stabilize a patient I'm running around the room implementing all the actions to actually keep them alive while also internally (sometimes verbally) brainstorming about the next step to keep them going.

I'm friends with the residents and talk with them candidly, trust me, they would prefer their low paid residency experience over having to do everything I did as an ICU RN.

I suppose we all have our cross to bear.

jasy · May 18, 2016

all the people spitting fire at my english and my inability to form good sentences, I understand that my english is not good. But anybody who knows how anesthesia is practiced in houston, please research how MDAs are very protective about their jobs and dont allow CRNAs to push the drugs, not allowed to do Regional anesthesia they want to differentiate themselves more skilled compared to CRNAs, CRNAs set up the room and everything and they will pUSH the drugs and be on their phones outside BAHAHAHAHHA flawed system, Does anyone know how much they bill for CRNA anesthesia services for 15 minutes general anesthesia...... 2800 us dollars thats how much they bill but the insurance company doesnt pay everything they pay about 700 still if you do 4 of those 2800 total in reasonably 2 hrs, anyways my english is not good but you understood my post right???? thats all it matters, ............. dont work for GHA, greate houston anesthesia dont work for them.

Aromatic · May 20, 2016

I would probably say that CRNAs are the one, where on average, they are able to provide a pretty similar level of care than MD/DOs coworkers. I will not say this of CNM, FNP, etc. Anesthesia seems to be a pretty focalized set of skills, which I am sure it is pretty difficult on super-complex-sick- surgical patients. But I would say a 5 year residency is overkill by far for anesthesia.... I cannot say this of surgery and ER, etc, but anesthesia seems to be one of the more repetitive jobs out there. a CRNA level of training is probably more than enough. And CRNA programs seem to have the right idea compared to the other APRN routes out there. It is much harder than FNP, i looked through my old buddies lectures and he had to learn probably twice as much per time unit than i was required in FNP. So while I was goofing off he was balls deep in a medical physiology text book. Like, the real medical physiology textbook, not the one written by an RN.

The talk on whether they deserve the same pay isn't worth discussing though, since we all know that political and economic aspects determine who makes what. In all sense, astrophysicists should make millions per year, since they will probably be the only people able to save us from our inevitable destruction of Earth. But most don't make that much unless they go into quantitative finance.

I mean just look how much actors and sports people make. MILLIONS. At least the namable ones. Are they providing a MULTIMILLION dollar benefit to humanity? No, not really. But they make more than we ever will.

We are a pretty unreasonable species thought so what can I say. Time to go watch the Avengers, Robert Downy's wallet aint gonna fill itself.

Assess1 · May 20, 2016

The original poster has a lack of knowledge of the subject of which she speaks. And now she ends a response with "don't work for GHA, greate houston anesthesia don't work for them". I know sour grapes when I see them. I feel sympathy for whoever has to work with her; she sounds like an angry CNA instead of a nurse.

cres1381 · May 21, 2016

Were you hired by the Asa to write this slanderous article? You obviously do not know a thing about the field. You write click-bait material and fill the web with more garbage. Do me a favor and go visit accredited schools. My favorite part of your middle school blog was the idea of "letting" crnas do things. You're a joke, your writings are a joke and God help who ever thinks you have an ounce of credibility. Before writing anything more about crnas contact the aana -you mediocre excuse for a blogger.

RNAV8R · May 21, 2016

It's not a matter of "deserve"..it's all a matter of supply and demand.

Mccragj1 · May 21, 2016

This is the most ignorant drivel I have ever seen. To harbor such a completely wrong opinion is one thing, but to write an entire

article showing the entire world how utterly dumb you are is beyond reasonable stupidity. I would be offended if there were any semblance of credibility here, but clearly there is not. I am suspicious that there may be an ASA troll here.

RARM42 · May 21, 2016

Since you are in this forum I am going to assume you are a nurse. I have to say your ignorance about the different specialties in nursing is very sad. But it is not your fault. Nursing schools do not talk to their students about specialties like Med schools do. That said I think you have some valid questions.

CRNAs are trained to do EVERYTHING a MDA does. As a matter of fact some CRNA are trained to do things a lot of MDAs and DOA are not trained to do. Example: An anesthesiologist told me yesterday he has never put a chest tube. There are many CRNA very capable inserting chest tubes. And don't get me wrong, I do like working with MDA and DOA. As long as they stay out of my room. But not every physician is the same. Just like not every CRNA is the same.

The reason you see anesthesiologists in the room at the beginning and at end of cases is not because CRNAs needs them. Its because of a billing model. They have to be there to be able to bill using that model.

One more thing, any RN can intubate a patient. EMTs do that all the time. An instructor of mine used to say: "You can train a monkey to intubate". That it's just a skill that gets better with practice. There is a lot more needed to become a CRNA. You should try to go for it. If you want that 220K so much you should enroll in CRNA school. I guaranteed it will be an eye opening experience.

emtpbill, ASN, RN, EMT-P · May 21, 2016

One more thing, any RN can intubate a patient. EMTs do that all the time. An instructor of mine used to say: "You can train a monkey to intubate". That it's just a skill that gets better with practice. There is a lot more needed to become a CRNA. You should try to go for it. If you want that 220K so much you should enroll in CRNA school. I guaranteed it will be an eye opening experience.

As a paramedic currently in excelsiors transition to RN program I do not fully know the answer but is intubating a patient within the scope of practice of an RN? I know CRNA's it is, but just a regular RN?

Hmpick · May 21, 2016

If you aren't a CRNA then you have no real idea what we do. As a professional you shouldn't be making derogatory comments if you don't understand what's going on behind the curtain. CRNAs make it LOOK easy, but "maintaining vitals" isn't as easy for some patients as it is for others. We aren't educated just to handle the routine anesthetic, we are educated how to handle things "when seconds count." Often times, we call the MDA to be available, or for a second set of eyes if we can't isolate an issue....but we are already working on the solution. Some of my preceptors would say: "Any monkey can learn to intubate, you're here to keep the patient alive." As a matter of fact, many hospitals train respiratory therapists to intubate for emergencies. They aren't manipulating the autonomic nervous system or performing anesthesia. Intubation is usually the easiest part of the case. As a new graduate, I have only called the physician a hand full of times in the past year. I perform the anesthetic autonomously, our MDAs are resources. We go to school for 3 years to ensure we can practice safely. I love my job and wouldn't change a thing about what I had to do to get here.

Additionally "most" anesthesiologists haven't intubated since their residency, so you can ponder about having your family member on the table with only the MDA at the head of the bed. That being said I work with "working anesthesiologists" not managing anesthesiologists and I think it's the best environment for a new graduate CRNA. It provides autonomy and support. We are interchangeable in the practice.

I'm not sure if the intial post was because someone didn't get accepted to school, or was just having a bad day but it was unprofessional all the way around.