Can nurses be forced to work during pandemic

Nurses COVID

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I'm wondering-can the government force nurses to work during an emergency outbreak such as a pandemic?

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
"............would not choose to be tied to a hospital without recourse in the event of an emergency......................... community to the extent that I am able given my other obligations to my family is something that I am certainly not opposed to................. in situations such as a highly fatal pandemic strain or terrorist threat etc. there may well be no going home. There may be quarantine where people LIVE at the hospital or facility for an unknown time frame. I'm not giving over my small children to a neighbor or a nanny for an unknown time frame "for the greater good". ....................The degree of emergency mentioned here I'm not seeing as something where you can maintain your 8 or 12hr shift and then go home on a regular basis."

Excuse me for chopping your post into sections which I'd like to address, particularly because you are unsure at this point, whether you want to be a nurse or not (I read your "about me" description). You haven't had any formal education which would equip you to make knowledgeable judgements about the extent of your commitment to your vocation. The uncertainty of reliable long term childcare if you were needed by your facility, or wherever your work might be in an emergency, would mean that you couldn't be relied upon to be there in an emergency.

Therefore I'm keenly aware that you might take a space in a nursing program at this time, that could better be given to another, more vocationally committed person. During Katrina in New Orleans, nursing staff were stuck in a hospital without running water or electricity, food, etc. caring for patients who were dead or dying, when in other circumstances they might have lived. No one could have predicted that quandry before it happened, and there was no current Emergency Plan made on a Federal level. One is being drafted now, and it will require that nurses stay with their patients or tend others, until they are officially relieved of their responsibility.

When your children are older, self reliant and have their own support system you might rethink your choice of study and apply again at a nursing school, without being encumbered with worries about untended children. Many women become nurses in mid life. I'll probably get a lot of flack, telling you this.........

I've been in nursing a long time, and have volunteered with the American Red Cross (I had pneumonia during Katrina, or I would have offered my help). There are many ways to do things associated with nursing. I hope you find your niche.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I'll probably get a lot of flack, telling you this.........

Well, I think this statement deserves a lot of flack. Boundaries. 'Whew!

Sorry, but I think you're off base. I know quite a few long standing nurses in a variety of areas of nursing and most are in agreement with the idea that family comes first. As it stands, 30% say they will not work during a pandemic (the poll thread) and 21% are undecided. I'm hardly alone in this stance. Further, you have no idea what my education or experience may be outside of what is in my profile. Just because I am a CNA at this time and moving into nursing school doesn't mean that I don't have degrees or experience in other medical or related areas. For all you know I might be a psychiatrist or other healthcare professional looking to move into a different medical field of expertise. I'm not saying I am or I'm not- I'm merely pointing out that you really have no idea.

Again, I'd wager that more people than not DON'T have reliable long term childcare if they thought about the potential situations during the situations we're talking about here. Daycares and schools may well be closed during these situations. Something to really think about. If all the nurses who currently rely on daycare and school for their childcare needs were to think "Gee, I shouldn't be a nurse because I don't have someone nearby who can raise my kid if disaster strikes and I have to live at the hospital for awhile." I think we'd be looking at a far greater and more serious nursing shortage than has been going on.

Do you also feel that nurses who are having a harder time finding full time work in their current area should be moving their families across the country to fill the holes in places where shortages are still a problem?

Excuse me for chopping your post into sections which I'd like to address, particularly because you are unsure at this point, whether you want to be a nurse or not (I read your "about me" description). You haven't had any formal education which would equip you to make knowledgeable judgements about the extent of your commitment to your vocation. The uncertainty of reliable long term childcare if you were needed by your facility, or wherever your work might be in an emergency, would mean that you couldn't be relied upon to be there in an emergency.

Therefore I'm keenly aware that you might take a space in a nursing program at this time, that could better be given to another, more vocationally committed person. During Katrina in New Orleans, nursing staff were stuck in a hospital without running water or electricity, food, etc. caring for patients who were dead or dying, when in other circumstances they might have lived. No one could have predicted that quandry before it happened, and there was no current Emergency Plan made on a Federal level. One is being drafted now, and it will require that nurses stay with their patients or tend others, until they are officially relieved of their responsibility.

When your children are older, self reliant and have their own support system you might rethink your choice of study and apply again at a nursing school, without being encumbered with worries about untended children. Many women become nurses in mid life. I'll probably get a lot of flack, telling you this.........

I've been in nursing a long time, and have volunteered with the American Red Cross (I had pneumonia during Katrina, or I would have offered my help). There are many ways to do things associated with nursing. I hope you find your niche.

Specializes in Medical.

I think few of us relish the idea of being thrust into making this kind of decision, or of being faced with this scenario outside Hypothetica (the land of hypotheticals). However, we all have reasons why we ought to be exempt. Please note I didn't specified young children - I'm the sole resident child of older parents, one of whom has a nasty autoimmune disease with a low 5-year survival rate. A colleague has an adolescent with autism. Another is emotionally supporting teens after a nasty divorce. A friend has a sister recently diagnosed with major depression and is her sole emotional resource.

When I said "hits home" (post 32) I meant: health care providers and their families are going to be personally affected by a pandemic. While some may be quarantined, others will be hospitalised. So perhaps what I should have said was: if you or a loved one needs in-hospital care, who do you think will be providing it? If we all prioritise ourselves and our needs over the needs of our community there won't be any nurses, doctors, aides, cleaners, orderlies, pharmacists, cooks, pathologists, delivery people, rubbish collectors...

I guess the bottom line is that there are alot of people who hold both perspectives and neither is going to change the others mind. This doesn't make anyone "less of a (insert healthcare professional here)" it just means that different people have different priorities and that's just the way it is.

I think few of us relish the idea of being thrust into making this kind of decision, or of being faced with this scenario outside Hypothetica (the land of hypotheticals). However, we all have reasons why we ought to be exempt. Please note I didn't specified young children - I'm the sole resident child of older parents, one of whom has a nasty autoimmune disease with a low 5-year survival rate. A colleague has an adolescent with autism. Another is emotionally supporting teens after a nasty divorce. A friend has a sister recently diagnosed with major depression and is her sole emotional resource.

When I said "hits home" (post 32) I meant: health care providers and their families are going to be personally affected by a pandemic. While some may be quarantined, others will be hospitalised. So perhaps what I should have said was: if you or a loved one needs in-hospital care, who do you think will be providing it? If we all prioritise ourselves and our needs over the needs of our community there won't be any nurses, doctors, aides, cleaners, orderlies, pharmacists, cooks, pathologists, delivery people, rubbish collectors...

The uncertainty of reliable long term childcare if you were needed by your facility, or wherever your work might be in an emergency, would mean that you couldn't be relied upon to be there in an emergency.

Just another thought... In a widespread disaster scenario- NO ONE can be relied upon to be there in an emergency because no one knows who will be affected by the disaster/emergency. If a bomb goes off downtown, you can't count on employees not having been downtown and not having been affected. I'd rather know someone clearly won't be able to be there than to wonder. Most facilities would almost certainly rather have great staff who are there 100% day to day but are known to have childcare issues and have to be strict on their schedulling (but 100% within that schedulling) than to only hire the ones who can definately make it to work during the apocalypse. ;)

Specializes in PACU, ED.

I would suggest checking your individual state plan. Massachusetts has a plan that would hold healthcare licenses at ransom if people refused to help. I could not find any wording like that in Arizona. My states plan includes a number of supportive measures for healthcare providers including childcare, rest and recooperation rooms, vaccine and meds for family members to name a few. They plan to make it easy for people to answer the call. If I had young children at home I would want to work here since childcare would be provided and I would still have health insurance and a paycheck. If I had to stay home because daycares are shut down I would get a double whammy of losing my pay and insurance as well. Kids need watching but they also need to eat and a roof over their heads.

It is good to have these discussions early so folks can plan and think of all of the rammifications of their decisions.

Specializes in ER and Home Health.

I have not had any children yet. But for me I would not be kept locked up in a facility, because no one else is there. Sorry I do need some parting time.Some relaxation time. I will give and give when I need to. But when I need my time I need my time. Has nothing to do with children.

I have not had any children yet. But for me I would not be kept locked up in a facility, because no one else is there. Sorry I do need some parting time.Some relaxation time. I will give and give when I need to. But when I need my time I need my time. Has nothing to do with children.

... Well... In the event of a major pandemic where everyone around is dying or a terrorist threat where everyone is afraid another bomb is going to kill everyone- "me time" kinda goes out the window in favor of self preservation.... In situations such as we are talking, there IS no relaxation time or "me time" whether you're at work or not....

Specializes in Community Health,Pediatric, School nursi.

Hippy.... If you left patients during a crises-it would be called "abandoning" and I believe you would lose your license.

Hippy.... If you left patients during a crises-it would be called "abandoning" and I believe you would lose your license.

.... If I left my kids during a crisis, it would also be called abandoning- and I'd lose my kids.... I'll take losing my license over losing my kids....

Specializes in Community Health,Pediatric, School nursi.

Nurses just by their training/experience know how to prioritize. If a nurse has dependents (young children, elderly) at home who need care (and spouse cannot provide), then the nurse will most likely stay with his/her family, otherwise I believe most nurses will try to provide nursing care where it is needed.

Nursing is not a vocation (although there obviously are still who think it is), but a profession-people go into this field for many different reasons, come from various different walks of life and have a variety of home situations.

In a pandemic, hospitals will do whatever they can to have adequate nursing staff-Unfortunately, possibly even with job/license threats. Before there is a pandemic, is the time that the hospitals should be planning how to meet high patient numbers/limited nurses-this should be part of their Pandemic Planning. They can predict that a certain percentage of their staff will not show up or will have family needs-they already should have plans in place to work with nurses in other fields.(Most do not). Hospital nurses should be demanding that these plans be in place-They are the ones who will bear the brunt of poor planning by the hospitals.

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