Direct Entry 2016: Pros/Cons of UCSF, Yale, UPenn, Vandy, Columbia, OHSU, & SeattleU

FutureNPisMe · Jan 13, 2016

Just some quick pros/cons off of the top of my head:

UCSF:

Pros: SF is a great city, UCSF tuition is much cheaper than other grad schools, Talking to a student there, I got the vibe that most people are very collaborative and at least from the 2015 cohort, no one has failed or withdrawn due to the academic rigor (perhaps a few have from personal circumstances, like pregnancy, etc), #2 nursing program in the country, preceptors are there for student success and function as your allies, SF offers competitive pay for nurses (though the standard of living is also much higher in SF compared to other cities)

Cons: SF is beyond expensive, no BSN offered though I don't know how much this affects job opportunities once MSN is earned, UCSF has high NCLEX pass rate, may be tricky obtaining work as an RN without a BSN during masters portion of program

UPenn:

Pros: #1 nursing program in nation, BSN offered (though this may be more important for Philly than other cities), Philly is affordable, a student I know who attends the program loves the program and told me key to success was striking a balance and not to be caught up in competition (though I'm sure this is also applicable to other institutions), summer start date so have more time to complete the BSN portion (I think...?), can work part time and go to school part time (perks of having BSN)

Cons: insanely expensive program, competitive student body (though unsure if unhelpful?)

Columbia:

Pros: offers BSN, decent nursing program, NYC is a great city, likely won't need to buy/bring a car, can obtain a DNP/PhD if applied directly as non-BSN to DNP/PhD,

Cons: NYC is expensive city, tuition is expensive

Yale:

Pros: Decent nursing school, has fancy Ivy name, affordable city, very close to NY

Cons: 74% is considered failing (not sure how this compares to other schools), if fail any major core course, like med-surg for example, you will have to withdraw and wait an entire year before being able to re-enroll into program (unsure how this policy compares to other schools; I always figured if you performed poorly in a course, you should be able to re-take the course (as UCSF offers) rather than having to withdraw), insider scoop told me students are competitive, but not directly in your face about it, my friend also mentioned that he considered YSN program to be merely average

Vandy:

Pros: Great program, Nashville is a fun and affordable city, my interviewer seemed incredibly friendly and gave me the impression that the program does anything it can to ensure student success

Cons: Foundation year (core nursing classes) is jam packed into 12 months (seems more stressful than programs beginning in summer which give you roughly 18 months to complete core classes so you are likely less stressed), no BSN awarded

OHSU: (don't know too much about it)

Pros: Portland is awesome!, great program, BSN awarded, affordable city, people seem pretty chill, decent weather

Cons: Can't really think of any??

SeattleU: (don't know too much about it, tbh)

Pros: Seattle is great city!, offers BSN

Cons: Unsure how established and well-respected this program is

sml14 · Feb 9, 2016

Thanks for starting this thread! Hopefully more will join and share their thoughts. What specialty are you? I'm sure that each school has different pros and cons depending on specialty, as well. I am CNM, so here are a few thoughts, at least for a few of the programs I applied to:

UCSF:

Pros: top-ranked program, many midwives in Bay Area, many opportunities to work with underserved populations (esp. Spanish-speaking), broad range of clinical sites throughout Bay Area, small cohorts, less expensive (at least for in-state tuition), offers WHNP in combination with CNM

Cons: housing insanely expensive and competitive, have to deal with commuting all over Bay for clinical sites (& associated commuting costs), parking tough around campus, for CNM specialty CA physician supervision laws limit midwives' scope somewhat (this may be changing if legislation can be passed in the coming year), a current MEPN student I talked to mentioned there is one prof in first year that students had major issues with (apparently program trying to address this), no BSN

OHSU:

Pros: top-ranked program, Portland more affordable than some cities (SF and probably NYC), great public transportation in Portland & around campus, clinical sites more central to campus minimizes stress of commuting, Oregon has some of the best laws for practicing midwifery (full autonomy & independence) and has very high rates of midwife-attended births, hospital allows water births, small cohort, awards BSN, each student paired with faculty mentor (in addition to an academic advisor)

Cons: rainy weather, Portland more expensive than some cities (maybe more than Nashville?), possibly less-diverse patient population (though they still offer opportunities to work on reservations & w/Spanish speaking communities)

Vandy:

Pros: top-ranked program, broad range of clinical sites & experience all over US (they deliberately try to place you at very diverse types of sites), Nashville more affordable than some cities, shorter program by a semester, offers full-tuition scholarships, everyone gets some scholarship (=more affordable than many programs), built-in time for entire CNM class to go to ACNM conference

Cons: have to travel up to 3.5 hours away for clinicals one semester during specialty year, traveling to placements may add expense & added stress of finding housing, no BSN, larger class

Seattle U (don't know too much)

pros: heavy emphasis on social justice, Washington/Seattle very midwife friendly, affordable, also shorter program

Cons: not ranked in top 10, I know someone who just graduated from their CNM program and said it really lacked organization and that she experienced some issues

Penn: major con is extreme cost compared to others - enough reason for me not to apply (thus I don't know much else about it)

Yale: applied but still don't know too much about it (towards bottom of my list)

Columbia: didn't apply

fpjc · Feb 9, 2016

Great thoughts. I'll throw my 2 cents about Seattle, since it seems to be one missing here.

PROS: Seattle is awesome (GO HAWKS!) if you can tolerate rainy/gloomy weather. The school is located right in the downtown area, so it's a fun place if you like to enjoy the town in your spare time. Housing is probably in the middle in terms of affordability. Public transportation is pretty good (at least in my experience). The program is also very short - only 2 years or maybe a little over 2 years and you come out fully an NP. It's relatively inexpensive, especially since the program is shorter.

CONS: If the program is anything like their admissions process, beware. I applied last year and got totally turned off by the lack of communication, lack of responsiveness, and overall poor organization. They ran so behind on their interview notifications last year that many had to be done over skype. During an info session, someone asked how job placement was right out the program, and the answer was that there may be some "difficulties" in the first year or two, but it "eventually gets better." Very different from a school like UCSF where job placement isn't really an issue. I asked my interviewer and was told that 50% of the class have jobs lined up before they graduate.

sml14 · Feb 9, 2016

I agree. I have already had some communications issues with the interview process, and when I mentioned it to the recent SU grad I know, her response was that it basically sounds typical of them. She did give me the impression that finding a job was more tricky than she expected (at least in the Bay Area), but she did get a couple jobs (outpatient & inpatient) within the first 6-12 months. I have also heard that it can be hard to get a job right away in the area of the school for other programs (UCSF & OHSU), though not sure exactly how the numbers compare.

Also, I think a pro for most of the programs I listed is the city in which they're in, so I didn't mention that part! I grew up near SF so the city is a little less appealing to me personally, but SF, Seattle, Portland and Nashville all seem like really cool cities.

What are your thoughts on the distance program that Vandy has vs. programs where you stay more local? On the one hand it could be very valuable to be able to learn skills in a lot of different settings in different places, but I also worry that I could get placed in a less-than-ideal learning setting (e.g. the laws and culture around nurse-midwifery seems to differ quite a bit depending on where you are, so I worry that I could be placed in an area where CNMs don't necessarily have a lot of autonomy or scope - not sure if that worry is well-founded though)

FutureNPisMe · Feb 9, 2016

Thank you guys so much for chiming in! It's really nice to hear other peoples' thoughts since this is such a huge decision.

To answer your question sml14, I'm on the psych track :)

In any case, since I've last posted, I have discovered some more information from interviews, chatting with others, contacting the school directly and asking, or simply researching. Here is some of the most up to date info I've discovered:

OHSU:

Pros: Total cohort for incoming 2016 class will hover around 44. This sounds incredible to me since there is more room for faculty to track your progress. Their withdrawal/drop out rate was very small - in 2014 100% people continued from the pre-specialty year and maybe one person took a leave of absence the 2nd year. I believe the same general trend continued for the following 2015 cohort. This seems very positive to me. Also, since the class is so small, faculty will directly reach out to you if they fear you are performing poorly in a course to give you fair warning to seek out other resources. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with what I've heard from OHSU at this point. Also, obtaining a BSN is a sweet deal! I think OHSU also allows students to continue on with the DNP if they so choose :)

Cons: I believe OHSU seeks students who want to stay in the greater Portland area post-graduation - this could be a pro or con, depending on where you want to build your future career.

Columbia:

Pros: Specialty year cohort is smaller which allows for more manageability. Preceptor to student ratio is about 1 to 7/8 students which seems good. If applied, you can get the DNP/PhD asap. If you didn't, Columbia likes to keep the Columbia legacy and will likely accept you to continue on with a doctorate if this is something that is of interest. Finally, I know the Ivy pedigree will be beneficial come time for job applications. Another thing: won't get kicked out of program if get less than 70% in class - just placed on academic probation with opportunity to improve, which is nice.

Cons: According to a friend, they accept about 200-250 nursing students in the direct entry program, with FNP being the biggest. I believe PMHNP is around 40 students. The major issue I hear revolves around the foundation year with their being very little clarity in directing students; it appears to me that the communication is incredibly poor during this year and given how impacted the program is, it's likely for students to fall between the cracks. It also seems that professors tend to presume that students know some nursing jargon from the get-go when most entering students have very minimal knowledge about nursing, hence the "direct entry to nursing" paradigm; as you can imagine, things can get confusing really quickly. On top of this, I've discovered that withdrawal during the foundation year is very high -- about 50 people dropped out the previous year or so (from what I've been told, at least). Perhaps we should contact Columbia to get the real numbers on this since I don't want to disseminate false information over here. This is a major concern for me. Also, no BSN awarded (I was wrong in my original post).

UCSF:

Pros: Accepts roughly 60 students! Faculty tracks progress of student and offers resources if they notice that students are struggling. This sounds amazing to me :) Also, the psych track has 8 people, I believe, so it's nice and intimate. I believe there are opportunities to retake a course or re-try for the NCLEX if you don't pass the first time!

Cons: Foundation year is super intense - I think they squeeze it all into 10 months. Yikes. Also housing - the biggest downfall in my opinion (finding, securing, and paying for it).

Penn:

Pros; BSN portion is 18 months long -- seems much much more manageable than the other programs. Also, faculty give you warning if they fear you're doing poorly. If you don't pass the NCLEX, you can study for another 3 months and pass the next time. It doesn't seem like it's all that big of a deal, which makes me feel like they really want to ensure student success. BSN

Cons: cost, not sure if I really want to live in Philly...

I'll add more as I find out :)

peachcobbler · Feb 10, 2016

I applied to most of these schools for midwifery, so thank you to everyone who has shared so far! I am wishing all of us luck as we try to figure all of this out.

I don't have much to add to what everyone else has shared, but I will share one interesting tidbit about UPenn. Not sure if this is a pro or a con, but depending on your specialty you may have up to 1 full year in between your BSN graduation and the beginning of your MSN program (for midwifery it's like 9 months). This is literally just because they lump us all together for the ABSN and then the MSN is quite separate by specialty and has its own timeline. This may also be a pro / con if you get close to someone / end up hating someone in the ABSN cohort LOL.

FutureNPisMe · Feb 11, 2016

I applied to most of these schools for midwifery, so thank you to everyone who has shared so far! I am wishing all of us luck as we try to figure all of this out.
I don't have much to add to what everyone else has shared, but I will share one interesting tidbit about UPenn. Not sure if this is a pro or a con, but depending on your specialty you may have up to 1 full year in between your BSN graduation and the beginning of your MSN program (for midwifery it's like 9 months). This is literally just because they lump us all together for the ABSN and then the MSN is quite separate by specialty and has its own timeline. This may also be a pro / con if you get close to someone / end up hating someone in the ABSN cohort LOL.

Thanks for sharing this valuable info! To add to this, I know that those in the CRNA track need to work in between the BSN and the MSN, so that's one that definitely cannot continue straight into the MSN track without getting some experience first. I definitely know that those in the PMHNP track can continue and assume the same is true for FNP, if not most others.

historybe · Feb 12, 2016

I am trying to decide between several of these programs for FNP. The contributions so far have been very helpful! If anyone else is also looking at Emory, I would be happy to hear what you think. Pros, for me, include a wealth of clinical and research opportunities, proximity to the CDC and other professional schools, and receiving a BSN. The main downside is the cost, which is significantly higher than the other programs.

juffy358 · Feb 15, 2016

Hi FutureNPisMe, thanks for starting this thread! This is super helpful. I've been looking at this site for a while but just finally created an account. I'm debating between Penn, Columbia, and Vanderbilt for PMHNP (still waiting to hear from Yale too).

One factor that I've been hearing about across all programs is that many times students will get job offers from their clinical placements. I think that's something helpful to keep in mind in terms of where you want to end up long-term.

I have been pondering several questions, if anyone has answers please share!

1. I saw you noted Columbia has 7 or 8 : 1 ratio for students to preceptors, do you know what the ratio is for Penn and Vanderbilt? I know Yale mentioned at the interview day that their ratio is 6:1

2. Does anyone have a sense of the strength of the PMHNP programs specifically at these programs? Or any differentiators?

3. Does the DNP (from Columbia) actually offer greater career opportunities as a new grad? Are you likely to get higher pay or have more doors opened?

4. What are everyone's thoughts on the fact that Penn's BSN portion is ~18 months whereas Columbia's is 15 months?

5. While Penn grants a BSN, Columbia now grants a masters for the RN portion. Does that masters allow you to get a job as an RN in the DNP portion or does it not function in the same way as the BSN?

I'm planning to call some of the programs tomorrow to get more info, so if I find out anything valuable I will share here :)

lanima · Feb 15, 2016

This is a great thread! I'm leaning towards Vandy but want to know more about financial aid. Does anyone know anything about the full tuition scholarships? I'm looking at VUSN (pre-specialty) and it would be nice to know how many people are considered for those/how many receive one. I understood the information online as only 1 PRE-SPECIALTY student gets a full scholarship (the others looked like they were for 2nd year students or Direct Entry). Any information would be great! :)

occrn1 · Feb 18, 2016

Hi Everyone,

This thread is great! I am currently deciding between UCSF and Columbia and cannot decide!! Here are my thoughts on each program:

Columbia:

Pros: You come out with a DNP. I've been talking to many NP's and reading articles (like this one: https://www.aanp.org/images/documents/publications/doctorofnursingpractice.pdf). We may eventually need a DNP degree, so it seems like a major plus that Columbia offers that. Also, it's an IVY league school. It is ranked #4 as a whole university and #11 for their nursing program.

Cons: Large classes & the dropout rate mentioned in the thread above. Also, I have no idea where I would live.

UCSF:

Pros: Small class & extremely reputable program. Program is extremely promising. Ranked #2 for the nursing program.

Cons: Does not offer DNP

If anyone has more pros/cons i would LOVE to hear them. I am having a really tough time deciding!