Hello. I am considering NP and PA school. I have a few years of experience as an ED Tech in a Level 3 Trauma Center in California (busy, but not too intense). Our ED is staffed with PA's no NP's.
I have a few questions about clinical differences between NP's and PA's. I know that PA's seem to have a great ability to work in surgery specialties like ortho, neuro, peds, and cardio surgery. They do pre and post surgery exams, order interprets tests, and prescribe meds (at least in 47-49 states). Are there any NP's on this forum who do this? Are there any in California who can comment?
Second. I know that most PA schools have a much longer clinical component than do NP schools. I have been told it is because NP's already have so much clinical experience as nurses. But can you really compare the two? In our ED, the nurses are not making differential diagnoses, determining etiology of disease, etc. etc., they are monitoring the pt's overall state and response to the treatment ordered by the Physician (or sometimes PA). Therefore, does this experience compare to the rigorous training PA's get in diagnosing?
Part of my interest in medicine is the actual procedures themselves. I want to do chest tubes, central lines, suturing, first assistant surgery, etc. etc. Are there any NP's out there who are doing this?
Finally, I know some people (including some nurses) who deride the "nursing diagnosis" concept. Can anyone offer up a brief rationale for how nursing diagnoses are of value to an NP in clinical practice?
There are some great PA vs NP that compare/contrast multiple aspects of the trade already in this forum, check them out. I also recommend googly 'physician assistant forum' and looking at their forum with the same post - but different perspective. It seems the specialties really vary by region and previous experience. You can transition to an FNP program at entry level or with no previous RN experience.. the NNP programs do require some experience within the NN environment - check out some schools to get an idea of what they expect. CRNAs acceptance will require (typically) 1-2 years of experience of ICU experience. There is a great forum section for PRE-CRNA students and they have some great 'flagged' posts that they save to introduce prospective nurses about the field and requirements to enter in as a student... there is also some good NN info unders the specialties forum.
That being said I would definately look at the PA vs NP from a few different viewpoitns - to include your own job market, your completed pre-reqs, ability to attend school full time vs part time and whether you prefer the medicine or nursing model of practive. v/r
I checked out the PA forums as well as that other NP vs PA thread and I feel like NP is still the way to go for me. However, I think that if I'm going to go to grad school, I might as well go the DNP route since it's going to come down to that in 2015 anyways.
I seriously considered the CRNA program for a while, but after conversations with my Aunt, who has been a CRNA for years & loves her job, I feel that with my personality, I would be better suited for more patient interaction.
Members, I have enjoyed reading the 2+ year thread (yep, read every post). I have many questions for this experienced for this experienced forum.
Without sharing with you my detailed background (which includes a BS in business field, but excludes a medical degree), my initial request is specific: I am researching for a Direct-entry NP program for applicants without a nursing degree. I am familiar with the Yale program, however, would like to explore other (more affordable) options. I contacted NPAA and Univ of CT and they were unable to provide/engage me in an informational fashion.
Are there other Direct Entry NP programs I should look at in the CT/MA area? Or do you recommend a College that offers an RN, year of service, followed by the NP program? ( would make financial sense). Other ideas to enter the Health Delivery profession as a mid-career woman with significant business/leadership experience?
AACN maintains a list of accelerated bach and mast for non-nursing bachelor students.
A lot of people will say RN exp prior is very beneficial - others say it's not... what I have read is that it is really based on your job market - does your area hire NPs whom are entry level with no prior exp? Aside from that it sounds like a great idea IMHO.
Members, I have enjoyed reading the 2+ year thread (yep, read every post). I have many questions for this experienced for this experienced forum.
Without sharing with you my detailed background (which includes a BS in business field, but excludes a medical degree), my initial request is specific: I am researching for a Direct-entry NP program for applicants without a nursing degree. I am familiar with the Yale program, however, would like to explore other (more affordable) options. I contacted NPAA and Univ of CT and they were unable to provide/engage me in an informational fashion.
Are there other Direct Entry NP programs I should look at in the CT/MA area? Or do you recommend a College that offers an RN, year of service, followed by the NP program? ( would make financial sense). Other ideas to enter the Health Delivery profession as a mid-career woman with significant business/leadership experience?
Thank you in advance
I am a graduate of the UConn MbEIN program if you have any questions about it. What is nice about this program is that after you complete the accelerated year to become an RN, you are actually expected to work as an RN before beginning the masters portion. I know many direct entry programs require you to go straight into the masters program with minimal or no nursing experience. I know plently of APRNs are successful without RN experience, but I think it usually will make you a better provider, and at the very least, give you more respect from many colleagues.
We graduate in December and if you want you can start masters courses in the fall. This also offers more flexibility because you can do the masters part-time or put it off for as many years as you want and then have a guaranteed seat in the masters program whenever you want (as long as you maintained a cum GPA of 3.0).
UConn's program is relatively affordable. The first year is $21,000 and most students get some scholarship money. If I remember correctly the first year at Yale is in the$45,000-$50,000 range and the accelerated program at Quinnipiac is similarly priced. For the masters program it is much more affordable and many students get graduate assistantships--which means free tuition and a stipend.
I also know of accelerated programs at UMass-Amherst, UMass-Worcester and Fairfield University.
PinkPeony, thanks for sharing your personal experience. Where did you take your Pre-req's? Community College is significantly less than Central Connecticut which is still less than UCONN. Does the school matter during the acceptance process?
UConn doesn't care where you did your pre-reqs. Most people I know did pre-reqs at a community college. I was lucky and had all the pre-reqs, except microbiology. I was a biology major and felt that I had a very good understanding of the subject from related coursework, despite never having taken an actual microbio class. UConn allowed me to take a CLEP exam instead and I was very thankful that I didn't have to shell out extra money for a class that I already had a good understanding of.
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
And yes, P.A have more clinical hours than an NP, but then again, as an RN you get real life experience and i think that's something you can't a true feeling for until you're actually on the job.
Like the RNs that go straight to NP school? Or the RN who has not touched a patient in 15 years? Or the RN with 2 years of experience in a low acuity, low traffic area? I dunno...2000+ clinical hours vs 665? As David has pointed out elsewhere the farther either gets from graduation, time, experience and specialization kinda even things out, but I would not be so quick to harp on all of that previous experience FNP students have.
But then again, i think P.A. is the easier route because all you need to do is complete the pre-reqs for the program of your choice and apply. But to me, they both seem similar, only NP seems to have mroe perks :)
Yeah about that. Most P.A. pre reqs are a bit (read a lot) harder than NP pre reqs, and I am only speaking anecdotally here, but the majority of my PA friends could NOT work during school (particularly year two) and the VAST majority of my NP friends did work (as I am now) during NP school. Man, that's gotta say something.
like the rns that go straight to np school? i dunno...2000+ clinical hours vs 665?
quote]
this has got to change. the np programs have to start requiring more clinical hours...this really is insane!
its more than just the hours its the type of experience. the canadians went to 750 hours after they studied this, but there have to be requirements to get certain types of experience. some programs are good about this and mandate so many peds hours, so many adult hours etc. others don't seem to care. i know one fnp that did her entire rotation in an er without a peds unit. the school didn't seem to care.
without standard for both the programs and the students the hours are meaningless. read the stuff from the texas bon about students that did their entire clinicals in a botox clinic and understand why the real need is for standards before increasing hours.
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IMHO.
just_cause, BSN, RN
1,471 Posts
this should be a straightforward answer
hah.
There are some great PA vs NP that compare/contrast multiple aspects of the trade already in this forum, check them out. I also recommend googly 'physician assistant forum' and looking at their forum with the same post - but different perspective. It seems the specialties really vary by region and previous experience. You can transition to an FNP program at entry level or with no previous RN experience.. the NNP programs do require some experience within the NN environment - check out some schools to get an idea of what they expect. CRNAs acceptance will require (typically) 1-2 years of experience of ICU experience. There is a great forum section for PRE-CRNA students and they have some great 'flagged' posts that they save to introduce prospective nurses about the field and requirements to enter in as a student... there is also some good NN info unders the specialties forum.
That being said I would definately look at the PA vs NP from a few different viewpoitns - to include your own job market, your completed pre-reqs, ability to attend school full time vs part time and whether you prefer the medicine or nursing model of practive. v/r