Difference bet 2 yr and 4yr school

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Beside time and money, what is the difference or benefits of a 4 year college for nursing or is there no difference. why...

:clown:

Specializes in Case Manager, Home Health.
i had to take two years of non-nursing classes. two years. english, literature, history, computer science, psychology, philosophy, theology, theater, statistics...

i'd like to see a "two year" adn program, if one really exists. :coollook: in california one is hard pressed to earn an adn in three years and that is if you can get all your classes and not have to wait due to classes being full. the "two years" is once you get into a program out here.

i have a prior ba and i "only" had to take 7 classes to get into our "two year" adn program (4 science classes & 3 non-science classes). those classes alone were two full semesters (i.e. one college year). once in the adn program it is 4 semesters, fill-time. no evening courses and no summer nursing classes.

so in addition to the two years of nursing classes one needs:

anatomy, physiology, chemistry, microbiology, psychology, english composition, public speaking, us government, racial/ethnic relations, and nutrition.

i agree my ba education taught me more about learning how to learn, but please don't call the adn degree a "two year degree." at least not here in california.

many of the people who choose the adn route do so not because it is "easier" but because it is available. the closest bsn program is a lot further away than the adn which isn't exactly close either.

regards,

ken

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Oh i COMPLETELY agree with this line. People turn the thread into a ADN vs. BSN degree debate on which is better, smarter, etc., and the DON'T GET that the OP was just asking what the difference or benefit was between a 2 and 4 year degree.

:stone

I'm beginning to think that an intelligent discussion about the merits of the various degrees is near impossible so long as people read too much into innocent observations/comments. It seems that many are quick to point an accusatory finger at someone and proclaim "You are jealous of BSN if you only have ADN". The original poster (like many students, etc) are curious about the differences if any between the ADN and BSN education.

To assert that an ADN cannot even correctly evaluate a BSN education is absurd, as are the accusations that you aren't well rounded without a BSN. This topic seems too controversial for some on this board (and in the industry) to maturely discuss. That is just plain sad.

For the record, there are regional differences and attitudes about the ADN vs BSN topic. One should not be told they are jealous or vague because they point out that in their particular corner of the world, there are differences in estimation regarding BSN vs. ADN.

If you can't ask a group of nurses about their various degree paths, who can you ask?

Sheesh!

Adri:uhoh21:

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Specializes in NICU.
To assert that an ADN cannot even correctly evaluate a BSN education is absurd, as are the accusations that you aren't well rounded without a BSN. This topic seems too controversial for some on this board (and in the industry) to maturely discuss. That is just plain sad.

I don't think this is an immature discussion. If you want to see one of those, please do a search on BSN vs. ADN and you'll find hundreds of posts.

What is wrong with saying the BSN education is more well-rounded than an ADN one? It's TRUE. I'm not talking about being a well-rounded PERSON, because that is individual. I'm talking about actual formal education. Someone with a Bachelor's degree DOES have a more well-rounded education than someone WITHOUT an Bachelor's. Yes, someone without even a high school diploma could have read a thousand books and be very well-educated. But there is nothing wrong with saying that a Bachelor's (in ANY subject) is a well-rounded degree as compared to an Associate's (in ANY subject). I don't see what is immature or absurd about saying that. I really don't. I'm not bashing Associate's degrees - they are very good, but focus mainly on the actual major. There is nothing wrong with saying that. I'm not saying a Bachelor's is better, I'm just saying there are lots of classes that have nothing to do with the major course of study, and that is what sets a Bachelor's degree apart. It's a liberal arts education combined with an intensive focus on a particular subject.

I don't understand how this is being offensive.

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As for California, I actually am applying to both an ADN and a BSN program locally. I will go to which ever accept me first. The differences in terms of actually class requirements for these two programs are (I have a 2nd bach already so my requirements are a little bit different):

* For lower division prereqs, I had to take statistics, inorganic chem, and organic chem for the BSN program. I almost decided agaist the BSN program because of the chem requriement.

* For upper division prereqs - ADN obviously do not have this. In my case, they will not wave it even though I have a second bach. So I am taking the following for the BSN:

- Death, Dying, and Religion (nursing applicable as we will deal with death)

- Magic, Science, and Religion (dealing with how humanity try to control our surroundings; nursing applicable when dealing issues of control, death, health)

- Nutrition and Physical Fitness (upper division class; not the lower level nutrition prereq; good for nursing since it plays into part of patient teaching sometimes)

- Aging and society (nursing applicable especially if one has an interest in the gero population)

- Health Science research (nursing applicable because a nurse really needs to know how to evaluate research, especailly if a patient start bringing in papers saying such a such treatment works and ask you for your opinion; also important in dealing with alternative type of meds as one needs to know how to evaluate the results;)

As for the actual nursing school program, as far as I can see, one of the big difference is that the BSN program goes into public health nursing (ADN just do not have the time to do it) and school nursing. Also it depends on your selection, you can actually get up to a full year of psych realted nursing if that is an area you are interested in (ADN only has the standard psych rotation).

There are other differences, but those are the ones that stood out in my mind when I was looking into both programs.

As far as the pass rate for the board exam, the ADN program I am looking at actually has a higher pass rate than the BSN program that I am looking at.

The thing is this in my view... get as much education as you can when opportunities come. All of us have different limitations in terms of resources (time, energy, financial, ... etc) and that will affect which programs we will go with. If you are lucky enough to have the opportunity to get a Ph.D. in nursing, go for it.

Last thought... if I were a patient... I really don't care if my RN is a ADN, BSN, or a diploma graduate. All I care is that my RN is a compassionated and competent RN, one who will advocate for me and my family.

-Dan

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In response to the query of a true two year program, yes there is one. I attended it, from 1969 to 1971. And it is still a two year program. We had no pre-requisites, rather co-requisites. These course were taken along with out nursing courses. It was and is a full time program. It currently has an evening program but it is mainly for LPNs.

Grannynurse

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Because to say that a BSN is more well rounded than an ADN degree is not true in many cases. In many cases (as is the case in my state) you usually end up taking the same classes (minus the community health and research class). Most all of the ADN students and graduates I know either already have a previous degree or they had to spend two years getting the pre-requisites for the ADN program, which they got while attending the other classes needed for the BSN program. What I am saying is that a BSN is not an accurate measurement of who is well rounded and who is not. And what about the people who came to nursing as a second (possibly 3rd or 4th career) who have had more work and life experience that rounds them out better than all the basket weaving classes you can shake a stick at?

Adri

I don't think this is an immature discussion. If you want to see one of those, please do a search on BSN vs. ADN and you'll find hundreds of posts.

What is wrong with saying the BSN education is more well-rounded than an ADN one? It's TRUE. I'm not talking about being a well-rounded PERSON, because that is individual. I'm talking about actual formal education. Someone with a Bachelor's degree DOES have a more well-rounded education than someone WITHOUT an Bachelor's. Yes, someone without even a high school diploma could have read a thousand books and be very well-educated. But there is nothing wrong with saying that a Bachelor's (in ANY subject) is a well-rounded degree as compared to an Associate's (in ANY subject). I don't see what is immature or absurd about saying that. I really don't. I'm not bashing Associate's degrees - they are very good, but focus mainly on the actual major. There is nothing wrong with saying that. I'm not saying a Bachelor's is better, I'm just saying there are lots of classes that have nothing to do with the major course of study, and that is what sets a Bachelor's degree apart. It's a liberal arts education combined with an intensive focus on a particular subject.

I don't understand how this is being offensive.

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Specializes in Home Health, Case Management, OR.

The difference between the 2yr and 4yr (where I am located), is that the 4yr has no wait list! I was on the waitlist for the ADN program for 3 years!! Finally I said forget this I am going to "invest" the money and get my BSN. It is a personal goal of mine to get my bachelors degree anyhow, so I figgured I would do it all in one swoop instead of going the ADN to BSN route. Plus I would like my masters eventually so it puts me one step closer. I am not sure how the degrees compare locally, as everyone I know is still on that dang waitlist and not in the program!

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Well I Guess I Really Add A Twist To This Puzzle Because I Have A Bachelor In Cardiopulmonary Science I Work As A Respiratory Therapist. I First Got My Associate In Applied Science From A Two Year College And Went On To Get My Bachelors. I Am Know Back At That Same College Doing Their Adn Program!!! As In Nursing There Is No Difference In 2yr And 4yr Programs As Far As Pay Only Mgmt And Supervisory Positions, Even Though My Supervisor Is A 2yr Degree Therapist But Has Been A Therapist 20 Yrs As To My 4 Yrs. I Hope To Be A Nurse Anesth. Oneday But I Am 37 Doing This So Just Pray For Me. I Hope To Be Able To Negotiate My Bachelor Of Science Degree. Pray That I Make It Through This Program Thanks

Stacey

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Specializes in Pediatrics.
in my state, the only thing standing between a bsn and adn is one year of government, history and a semester of statistics. i'm not quite sure how government and history are relevant to nursing but i'm sure a bsn prepared nurse can answer that question.

wow, i guess i picked the wrong bsn program.

instructors at the cc has fewer students per class and is able to provide more indiviualized attention to their students. hmm, more personalized attention for less money, that would make the choice to pursue an adn fairly intelligent i would think.

that's quite an assumption. other than the state schools in my area (which are jammed-packed with students, you are just a number). the private bsn programs have very reasonable class sizes (i attended bsn and msn programs at one of them- but yes, it does cost more). in the adn school i went to (and now teach at), it is/was a very big class. yes there is personal attention, it is a hospital-based program, there is one class per 'grade', so the students/teachers do get to know each other.

however, what is the point in insulting each other? a great nurse is a great nurse and a bad nurse is a bad nurse regardless of their education. like someone posted earlier, all of the backbiting and "i'm more intelligent than you are" comments do not further the profession, it degrades it. i'm kinda thinking it makes all of us look very unitelligent.

it sure does, but it just seems like those with the adn are very quick to be on the defensive. there's really no need for it.

and yes, there actually are true 2 year programs still out there. i teach at one. you have a 2 yr or 3 yr option. many of the students who enter the program have already taken the pre-reqs (at other schools), but you actually can complete it in 2 yrs. i did it, am alive to tell the tale.

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wow, i guess i picked the wrong bsn program.

that's quite an assumption. other than the state schools in my area (which are jammed-packed with students, you are just a number). the private bsn programs have very reasonable class sizes (i attended bsn and msn programs at one of them- but yes, it does cost more). in the adn school i went to (and now teach at), it is/was a very big class. yes there is personal attention, it is a hospital-based program, there is one class per 'grade', so the students/teachers do get to know each other.

it sure does, but it just seems like those with the adn are very quick to be on the defensive. there's really no need for it.

and yes, there actually are true 2 year programs still out there. i teach at one. you have a 2 yr or 3 yr option. many of the students who enter the program have already taken the pre-reqs (at other schools), but you actually can complete it in 2 yrs. i did it, am alive to tell the tale.

i believe the confusion between what is required for a bsn and an aas is because most are comparing the rn to bsn program and not the true basic program. the degree requirements, in terms of nursing for an rn student are not the same as for a basic student. a basic student has two years of requirements to forfill before applying to their college's nursing program. and two years of nursing and upper division course work before being granted their degree. most rn to bsn programs grant credit for nursing courses and lower division course work. the requirements for nursing are minimal, with minimal clinical requirements.

and if i didn't know better, i would think you taught at my old program, hudson valley community college and had attended sage for your bsn but i know you did not. there has not been a public university program in our area in more then 15 years. and hvcc is a true two year program. they do have a part time program that takes four years for those that want the time but there is no difference in the requirements for graduation.

grannynurse:balloons:

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Specializes in Pediatrics.
i believe the confusion between what is required for a bsn and an aas is because most are comparing the rn to bsn program and not the true basic program. the degree requirements, in terms of nursing for an rn student are not the same as for a basic student. a basic student has two years of requirements to forfill before applying to their college's nursing program. and two years of nursing and upper division course work before being granted their degree. most rn to bsn programs grant credit for nursing courses and lower division course work. the requirements for nursing are minimal, with minimal clinical requirements.

agreed, there is a difference. but even with the rn-bsn program, i needed to do way more than the 'few' classes the other poster spoke about. i had no college prior to nursing school, so i needed to take around 66 credits to get the bsn. incuded in this was another english, (2)foreign languages, music, art, (2)theology, (2)philosophy, statistics, poli sci, gym (ugh!!!!), chemistry, and a bunch of nursing classes. granted, these the classes were harder than the nursing at this point, because the 'bulk' of nursing i need i got in the adn program. but it took the equivelant of 2 years (for me, about 7 yrs part time).

and if i didn't know better, i would think you taught at my old program, hudson valley community college and had attended sage for your bsn but i know you did not. there has not been a public university program in our area in more then 15 years. and hvcc is a true two year program. they do have a part time program that takes four years for those that want the time but there is no difference in the requirements for graduation.

not too far from there, relatively speaking (queens and long island!!!)

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I am a nursing student ~on the way to a BS degree. We were told that the only differences in our program compared to the technical AS degree is that we receive courses in leadership and management, plus all our gen eds. My reason for choosing this program is because of the fact that I want to continue my education following my degree.

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