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Difference bet 2 yr and 4yr school

Beside time and money, what is the difference or benefits of a 4 year college for nursing or is there no difference. why...

:clown:

Beside time and money, what is the difference or benefits of a 4 year college for nursing or is there no difference. why...

:clown:

In the area where I live (Southern Mississippi) there is a big difference between the two year program where my husband graduated from (and where I will be starting this January) and the local 4 year university. The difference is that the students who went through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students. Our 2 year program has a very high NCLEX pass rate whereas the 4 year program is a pathetic 70%.

When my husband graduated and was doing his orientation for the hospital he is working at, they had a class about heart monitor strip readings. It was a breeze for him, but the two students who came from the 4 year university had NEVER even seen an EKG strip. Wow.

There is no difference in pay between the two, but the 4 year program will provide alot of classes on "nursing management", etc. This could lead you to become qualified to work as a nurse manager if that appeals to you. Most positions in management require a BSN. Depending on your long term goals, this could help you to make a decision that will be best for you.

To summarize, I don't think that one program is "better" than the other, it depends entirely upon the quality of the school and what your future job goals are. If you are having a hard time deciding, I would suggest that you do a 2 year program and then when you are working, do an online RN-BSN program. This way you will get working a year or two earlier and this might help you to decide what career path you really want.

Best wishes,

Adri

ortess1971

Specializes in OR.

I agree with the above post-in my state the 2 year program I attend has a very good NCLEX pass rate and it is thought to be better than the 4 year programs. This can vary though.I do want my BSN but I am going to let my hospital pick up the tab, they also have an agreement with one of the schools. They hold the classes right on the hospital campus and the hospital will pay most of your way. My friend will end up paying $1800 for a BSN. My program also gives you a lot of clinical experience which is important.

S.N. Visit, BSN, RN

Has 8 years experience. Specializes in Home Health Care.

I think another difference is that 2 yr programs usually attend through the summer, and traditional 4 yr institutions do not.

I'm in a BSN program, and the NCLEX pass rate is around 90%. 70% is pretty bad for all that time and money. The main difference between this BSN program and the ADN program here is general coursework - lots of English and humanities, a year of chemistry, statistics, and then some research and administration classes. We do more clinicals than most schools (BSN and ADN alike). It is definitely more expensive, the only plus is that the local hospitals will essentially pay for your last 2 years if you sign a contract. It still seems ridiculous, though. Tuition rates went up & with books and parking permits and athletic fees and a million other fees for things that will never benefit me, my student aid refund is essentially gone. I'm thinking of transferring to the ADN program. I would be able to finish up my bachelors almost entirely online if I went that route, but with the waiting list, I might not be working any sooner.

Thanks for all of the information. I have an idea which route I want to choose. Good luck to all of you.

Daytonite, BSN, RN

Has 40 years experience. Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

whoa! butterflybee. . .let me give you a bit of a different perspective here from everyone else who posted to your question! first of all, i learned nursing in a 2-year adn program and finished up 11 years later with a bsn from a university. there is a difference here that most adn students are not aware of. don't confuse the actual hands on practice of nursing with the education behind it. both adn and bsn programs are going to teach you the actual hands on nursing. to say that students who go through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students is not true and this is a statement that someone made based on their own experience and observations as an adn. it is not correct thinking to believe that an adn can evaluate the education of a bsn. how can an adn nurse possibly know what goes on in a bsn program if they have never been through and completed one? if there wasn't such a big difference between the two ways to get nursing knowledge, why would both kinds of programs remain around? also, you were given a viewpoint that is bigoted and very common among adn nurses who justify having "only an adn" by attempting to equate it with a bsn education. i know, i was an adn who used to say the same things--until i went back to get my bsn. adns who trash and belittle their bsn colleagues are jealous. it's that simple. they have no idea what going through a bsn program entails. (you will also find this kind of thinking with lpns who believe that their hands on training is just as equal to that of an rn.) so, don't fall into that cesspool of thinking, please. having worked with new grad nurses within a hospital orientation program i can tell you from my own experiences with both adn and bsn graduates that they are equally lacking in hands on experience doing nursing procedures. it is the nastier, bigoted adns however who seem to take delight in seeing bsns struggling to master nursing procedures just as much as they themselves struggle. however, bsns are exposed to a much deeper understanding of nursing in their university programs.

adns are not given enough information in their programs to be efficient managers and supervisors of their co-workers. you will find very few adns who are nursing managers and leaders. if they are fortunate enough to obtain one of those positions, they often will go back to school to get their bsn. adns also lack a more enriched background in the behavior sciences because an adn program of study doesn't have enough time to accomodate those areas of study, although they do touch upon them. they do not learn or are given enough information about the overall operation of the healthcare system. they are only briefly exposed to nursing research and do not go into much depth with it. most have no appreciation of how to do a nursing research project. these, however, are things that are taught in a bsn program.

one of the things that distingishes a bachelor's degree from an associate degree is the level of thinking and ability to research a subject that is required. talk to some bsn nurses and you will find that they spent a good deal of time in a library researching papers that they were required to write. now, you will hear adns poo-poo that by commenting, "what's so important about that?", or "i had to do research papers too". what is important about it is that they are learning exercises designed to help a person to deepen their analytical abilities and deepen their understanding of a subject. the more of these papers you do, the more you know, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. the more you know, the more non-judgmental you become. also, bsns receive a much broader liberal arts education. there is just not enough time in aa programs to expose students to all this. the focus of college is to teach students how to think on their own and how to find the answers to questions on their own. adn programs only touch on this. however, bachelor degree students are exposed to a much richer environment of these activities than an associate of arts level student. so, the question you want to be asking yourself is what you want to get out of your education because both kinds of programs are going to teach you to be an rn.

whoa! butterflybee. . .let me give you a bit of a different perspective here from everyone else who posted to your question! first of all, i learned nursing in a 2-year adn program and finished up 11 years later with a bsn from a university. there is a difference here that most adn students are not aware of. don't confuse the actual hands on practice of nursing with the education behind it. both adn and bsn programs are going to teach you the actual hands on nursing. to say that students who go through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students is not true and this is a statement that someone made based on their own experience and observations as an adn. it is not correct thinking to believe that an adn can evaluate the education of a bsn. how can an adn nurse possibly know what goes on in a bsn program if they have never been through and completed one? if there wasn't such a big difference between the two ways to get nursing knowledge, why would both kinds of programs remain around? also, you were given a viewpoint that is bigoted and very common among adn nurses who justify having "only an adn" by attempting to equate it with a bsn education. i know, i was an adn who used to say the same things--until i went back to get my bsn. adns who trash and belittle their bsn colleagues are jealous. it's that simple. they have no idea what going through a bsn program entails. (you will also find this kind of thinking with lpns who believe that their hands on training is just as equal to that of an rn.) so, don't fall into that cesspool of thinking, please. having worked with new grad nurses within a hospital orientation program i can tell you from my own experiences with both adn and bsn graduates that they are equally lacking in hands on experience doing nursing procedures. it is the nastier, bigoted adns however who seem to take delight in seeing bsns struggling to master nursing procedures just as much as they themselves struggle. however, bsns are exposed to a much deeper understanding of nursing in their university programs.

adns are not given enough information in their programs to be efficient managers and supervisors of their co-workers. you will find very few adns who are nursing managers and leaders. if they are fortunate enough to obtain one of those positions, they often will go back to school to get their bsn. adns also lack a more enriched background in the behavior sciences because an adn program of study doesn't have enough time to accomodate those areas of study, although they do touch upon them. they do not learn or are given enough information about the overall operation of the healthcare system. they are only briefly exposed to nursing research and do not go into much depth with it. most have no appreciation of how to do a nursing research project. these, however, are things that are taught in a bsn program.

one of the things that distingishes a bachelor's degree from an associate degree is the level of thinking and ability to research a subject that is required. talk to some bsn nurses and you will find that they spent a good deal of time in a library researching papers that they were required to write. now, you will hear adns poo-poo that by commenting, "what's so important about that?", or "i had to do research papers too". what is important about it is that they are learning exercises designed to help a person to deepen their analytical abilities and deepen their understanding of a subject. the more of these papers you do, the more you know, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. the more you know, the more non-judgmental you become. also, bsns receive a much broader liberal arts education. there is just not enough time in aa programs to expose students to all this. the focus of college is to teach students how to think on their own and how to find the answers to questions on their own. adn programs only touch on this. however, bachelor degree students are exposed to a much richer environment of these activities than an associate of arts level student. so, the question you want to be asking yourself is what you want to get out of your education because both kinds of programs are going to teach you to be an rn.

well said.. when we are intimidated by something, we have a tendency to try to tear it down. the bottom line is, do what you feel is better for you but you don't have to put down what someone else has to make yourself feel better. regardless of what any of us think, a bsn is a 4 year degree and a adn is a 2 year applied science (technical) degree. an adn is trained to be a technical nurse, which would explain the longer clinical hours. a bsn is trained to be more than a technical nurse. if any adn have taken bsn courses, you know exactly what i mean.

the question you want to be asking yourself is what you want to get out of your education because both kinds of programs are going to teach you to be an RN.

This is the most important thing for you to think about (in my opinion).

2-year programs are out of the question for me because I am headed towards PhD (or DNSc) for the research. So I need a BSN/MSN first. I really agree with the previous post in that it all depends on what you want to do with your education...

LP

S.N. Visit, BSN, RN

Has 8 years experience. Specializes in Home Health Care.

Daytonite: Since you were replying about everyone who posted in this thread's perspective, I'd like to reply and state that I stand behind my post :) We, the posters in this thread are not jealous, bigoted ADN's that are talking trash.

I am currently in school, 1st year of an ADN program and I chose this route because the community college is 20 minutes away and is only $90 a credit. The BSN program that I consider to bridge to is 2 hours away and cost nearly $400 per credit. Hhmm, I like to save my money and spend time with my kids. I will look for other RN-BSN on-line options. I think it makes far more sence for me to get my RN at the most affordable cost for my family. This "cesspool of thinking,"does not make me or anyone else a "nasty ADN."

Daytonite, BSN, RN

Has 40 years experience. Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

Tanzanite. . .I went the ADN route as well because of finances. However, I did eventually go back for my BSN. My eyes were opened. I don't expect everyone to understand the differences between the two kinds of RN programs unless they have experienced them both. I felt that a BSN prospective was needed in the discussion and it was too juicy to ignore taking a few pot shots. For that, I appologize if anyone thought that I was specifically singling them out. But, if the shoe fits... In fact, there is room for all. I just wish we could lose the attitudes and all get along. Nurses work so incredibly hard and under such stress that we really need to be respectful of each other, no matter what route we took to get where we are. Good luck with your classes!

Hi! I am currently entering my last semester of an ADN program, I am hoping to go for my BSN next year. There are several classes offered at the BSN level that are not offered to the ADN, such as advanced pathophysiology. I respect all who have endured nursing school, no matter what level, but it does stand to reason that the more time you put in the more you will come out with.

Daytonite, BSN, RN

Has 40 years experience. Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

IdahoGirl. . .wise woman.

thank you for the very in depth answer. mentally, i was already headed that way. the simple reason i had though was that if i had to go back to school anyway, i may as well use that time for the bsn which is what some hospitals prefer.

whoa! butterflybee. . .let me give you a bit of a different perspective here from everyone else who posted to your question! first of all, i learned nursing in a 2-year adn program and finished up 11 years later with a bsn from a university. there is a difference here that most adn students are not aware of. don't confuse the actual hands on practice of nursing with the education behind it. both adn and bsn programs are going to teach you the actual hands on nursing. to say that students who go through the 2 year program are far more prepared than the 4 year students is not true and this is a statement that someone made based on their own experience and observations as an adn. it is not correct thinking to believe that an adn can evaluate the education of a bsn. how can an adn nurse possibly know what goes on in a bsn program if they have never been through and completed one? if there wasn't such a big difference between the two ways to get nursing knowledge, why would both kinds of programs remain around? also, you were given a viewpoint that is bigoted and very common among adn nurses who justify having "only an adn" by attempting to equate it with a bsn education. i know, i was an adn who used to say the same things--until i went back to get my bsn. adns who trash and belittle their bsn colleagues are jealous. it's that simple. they have no idea what going through a bsn program entails. (you will also find this kind of thinking with lpns who believe that their hands on training is just as equal to that of an rn.) so, don't fall into that cesspool of thinking, please. having worked with new grad nurses within a hospital orientation program i can tell you from my own experiences with both adn and bsn graduates that they are equally lacking in hands on experience doing nursing procedures. it is the nastier, bigoted adns however who seem to take delight in seeing bsns struggling to master nursing procedures just as much as they themselves struggle. however, bsns are exposed to a much deeper understanding of nursing in their university programs.

adns are not given enough information in their programs to be efficient managers and supervisors of their co-workers. you will find very few adns who are nursing managers and leaders. if they are fortunate enough to obtain one of those positions, they often will go back to school to get their bsn. adns also lack a more enriched background in the behavior sciences because an adn program of study doesn't have enough time to accomodate those areas of study, although they do touch upon them. they do not learn or are given enough information about the overall operation of the healthcare system. they are only briefly exposed to nursing research and do not go into much depth with it. most have no appreciation of how to do a nursing research project. these, however, are things that are taught in a bsn program.

one of the things that distingishes a bachelor's degree from an associate degree is the level of thinking and ability to research a subject that is required. talk to some bsn nurses and you will find that they spent a good deal of time in a library researching papers that they were required to write. now, you will hear adns poo-poo that by commenting, "what's so important about that?", or "i had to do research papers too". what is important about it is that they are learning exercises designed to help a person to deepen their analytical abilities and deepen their understanding of a subject. the more of these papers you do, the more you know, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. the more you know, the more non-judgmental you become. also, bsns receive a much broader liberal arts education. there is just not enough time in aa programs to expose students to all this. the focus of college is to teach students how to think on their own and how to find the answers to questions on their own. adn programs only touch on this. however, bachelor degree students are exposed to a much richer environment of these activities than an associate of arts level student. so, the question you want to be asking yourself is what you want to get out of your education because both kinds of programs are going to teach you to be an rn.

Daytonite, BSN, RN

Has 40 years experience. Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

I got my ADN in 1975 and my BSN in 1986. I always advise people to go the BSN route in the first place if that is one of their goals. I had to re-take Anatomy and Physiology for the university where I took got my bachelor's degree. I also had to endure a very stressful written and demostrated nursing competency test designed by the university as they did not take ADN undergraduate nursing classes for transfer credit. I had to "prove" I was worthy as an RN. Every school, however, is different and has different requirements. However, why put yourself through the anxiety of all that if you can avoid it? There were also a bunch of classes that I could not take at the community college level that were required at the university.

Hello,

I am currently attending a 2 year school and I love it. The reason I chose to go the 2 year route is because of my family and financial obligations. I have a bachelors degree in Psychology and before entering nursing school I never thought I would go back for my bachelors but now I am thinking that once I graduate and get in the workforce maybe I will. Since the only thing I know is the 2 year program, I have to say it is (at least at my school) a great program. The thing I like most about it is the amount of time we spend in clinical. I just finished my first semester and we are already in the hospital two days a week.

Dayontonite- I have read your Med Surg reply on a previous post and your information was very informative, it is obvious that you really know your stuff. However, I felt that in this email you put down 2 year students, I have been looking at this board to learn from everyone not to be put down.

Kate

SmilingBluEyes

Has 20 years experience.

Excuse me, but: My ADN program required a quite a lot of research and paper writing and critical thought was not only taught, but was a PRE-REQUISITE. So was an interview and written paper PRIOR to acceptance to the program. It was very competitive and very tough, from admittance to graduation and pinning. Those of us who made it, had a lot to be proud of.

BSN programs do not have "the lock" on these things (research capability and critical thinking skills), unlike some think.

I have found one truly cannot tell the difference between a BSN-nurse and ADN nurse on the unit, neither by performance , nor communicative ability. I have seen written communications from MSN's that are appalling, and such from ADN's that are flawless. Some people are better-gifted in these things than others, I realize, but I would think after 6 years' higher learning, all should communicate well. This is not the case; let me tell you.

And I have worked 8 years around all KINDS of nurses from the LPN to PhD level. I have had the pleasure of working with true professionals whose performance was admirable at all levels.

I also was admitted to an RN-BSN program and did NOT have to retake ANYthing or "prove" worthiness, except to show them my ADN program grades/transcripts, and write an essay about why I chose to advance my education and my future goals.

I admit: I dropped out of the program after lots of "BSN's are the only professional nurses and ADN's are ruining the profession" type of indoctrination. It was a total turn-off. So were all the hours of busy work where I was learning little at all. It just seemed to me, I did not need to pay a lot of tuition money to hear that----I wanted to advance my education, but did not need "busy work" ---it was very unstimulating, boring and insulting. Until I find a program that respects my experiences as an adult learner and seasoned nurse, I am afraid, going back is not very appealing. I am currently considering an RN-MSN instead....we shall see. First dh has to get settled after military retirement before I can consider going back to school. But I digress.....

bottom line:

Let's end this BSN versus ADN "who's better" thing already! WE have bigger fish to fry in nursing than this "oneupmanship" we have going on here. Choose the educational route that best works for your family life, finances, traveling/commute requirements and career path---but do not get caught up in "who is better games" while you are at it. Focus on what you want to do with your career as a nurse and the rest will take care of itself.

One more thing: can we please quit the generalizing on BOTH sides?

ortess1971

Specializes in OR.

Daytonite: Since you were replying about everyone who posted in this thread's perspective, I'd like to reply and state that I stand behind my post :) We, the posters in this thread are not jealous, bigoted ADN's that are talking trash.

I am currently in school, 1st year of an ADN program and I chose this route because the community college is 20 minutes away and is only $90 a credit. The BSN program that I consider to bridge to is 2 hours away and cost nearly $400 per credit. Hhmm, I like to save my money and spend time with my kids. I will look for other RN-BSN on-line options. I think it makes far more sence for me to get my RN at the most affordable cost for my family. This "cesspool of thinking,"does not make me or anyone else a "nasty ADN."

Well said...In my post, I had stated that schools vary. In my particular state, the 2 year program has a better NCLEX pass rate and the students are received better than the 2 BSN programs I spoke of...Doesn't mean that all BSN programs are garbage and I intend on getting my BSN.(because I would like to be a CRNA) In the area of nursing I want to pursue-there is no difference between a BSN and an ADN(except for administration and I'd rather shove needles into my eyes than be a paper pusher) As a matter of fact, in my OR, the supervisor on evenings is an ADN as is the nurse educator. I was simply stating that for some people, pursuing the ADN is a financially wiser choice, especially if your employer will pick up the tab later to get the BSN if you want to. Good luck with your decision!:)

i can give u both perspectives. i started in a ADN right out of hs. lets just says thats a huge mistake if your young. although i might be a minority or what not, i was the youngest by far in my class at the CC, by nearly 3 or 4 yrs. Also when ur in the ADN, i think you feel very sparce and seperated from everyone else because everyone has other things going on like work, children, etc etc. You also dont get the experience that you would if you were to go to a BSN and interact with people your own age. I did one yr at the ADN and transferred to a BSN and now im in that at a university where i feel it is more up to my standards in that everyone is about my age and like their on the level that I am.

the differences in requirements is that the adn only needs basic classes like someone said to get u by and to be an efficient nurse and you become more hands on faster. The BSN is more in depth with information, more pre-reqs like a math, chem, patho which the adn lacked, and other minor classes which emphasis writing. I think the writing part of the BSN makes the nurses who graduate with a BSN more likely to research and go forward in their education and pursue things. I think people with adn just are looking to be happy with being a staff nurse and aren't in the no and want to go towards something more.

Daytonite, BSN, RN

Has 40 years experience. Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

The profs in my BSN program were always talking about "When you go for your Master's degree. . ." like it was something we would all probably do! :chuckle We were always getting comments from them like, "when you do your research for your Master's thesis you will need to know how to do this, or that, or look this up." We were told we were being prepared for graduate school. We were reminded that the Frances Payne Bolten School of Nursing at Case Western Reserve University was just down the road! For those of you who don't know, this is considered to be one of the premier graduate schools of nursing that offers Master's, doctorates and PhDs in nursing. One thing I did take advantage of and learn to do was navigate my way around the Healthsciences Library at Case Western Reserve. It is an awesome place that has just about every copy of journal from every different healthcare discipline in their collection. I spent a lot of time there researching my literature review for my project in Nursing Research. I went over to their Allen Medical Library once and was just too overwhelmed to figure out how to get around there. I still have a memory of the stacks in that place. It's one thing to listen to all the complaints about doctors, but when you see the kind of study it takes for them to get where they are it really humbles you.

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