Did anyone else read the Woman's Day article?

AMV · Sep 26, 2003

Nurses in their 60's?? I am 38 and I am wondering how long I can do this... and it not just the physical aspect, but the mental and physical combined. To many patients, too much to do and not enough time!!

When you say "hire more nurses" are you suggesting that the article means that new staffing ratio's are because older nurses will need to return to work or continue work to bring nurses back to nursing? I just want to clarify this. Because the way staffing is for MOST hospitals in the country - it is not safe nor a desireable work environment for ANY nurse of ANY age!!

Finally, it IS a matter of money. Hospitals created this shortage years ago (cut staff to cut budget) by staffing like they have in the first place. As conditions improve, nursing will be seen as a more desirable career path. However, to improve conditions, will require more nurses - period! Also if compensation were to increase so that nurses were truly paid for what our responsibilities and education require, this would also be a magnet to draw people to nursing as a career.

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 26, 2003

I am not saying that money is not important or that conditions do not need to improve and that we don't need more nurses.

I am only saying that we need to look carefully at the complexities of the situation and look for specific things we can do to ATTRACT more nurses and KEEP the nurses we do have. Money will help, but it is not the ONLY thing required. The physical demands of nursing need to be addressed if we hope to have nurses remain at the bedside as they age.

Addressing those physical needs requires looking at scheduling options (e.g. shorter shifts, less rotating, and less floating) and perhaps reorganizing our work to reduce the physical strain on the body to help the older worker stay at the bedside longer. Increased pay ALONE will not help those problems.

llg

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Sep 26, 2003

As one of the older nurses at my workplace, I too am feeling the physical and emotional strain of bedside nursing, and my take on the nursing shortage is perhaps a little cynical. What I say is, you can put 50 million people through nursing school, but until hospitals and nursing homes unlimber their checkbooks and put more nurses out there on the floor, sheer numbers of RNs won't make any difference whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you've got 20 RNs standing in line for jobs if the institution refuses to staff more than 10 nurses. And frankly, with working conditions the way they are now (and mine is one of the BETTER-staffed hospitals in our area), it's going to be increasingly difficult to attract smart, young men and women to nursing.

The worst thing that ever happened to health care was when it abandoned its higher purpose of service to humanity and became just another profit-driven business. I don't see that changing any time soon. What a shame.

Pretzlgl · Sep 26, 2003

Originally posted by mjlrn97
The worst thing that ever happened to health care was when it abandoned its higher purpose of service to humanity and became just another profit-driven business. I don't see that changing any time soon. What a shame.

I agree. Hospitals are a "front" that purports patient care - but truly it is all about the almighty dollar. The CEO of my NONPROFIT hospital was in Forbes magazine as one of the best paid CEO's. And we don't have an EKG machine that works in our CCU. How frustrating. And how frustrating and back breaking to go to work and have 3 and 4 patient assignments in the ICU. Ridiculous. But yet a VIP type patient will come in and lo and behold - a 1 to 1 assignment! (In my opinion all patients are VIP's, and I refuse such bull$$%% assignments). More money would certainly help - but llg is right, it would not fix the problems and in and of itself would not attract and keep nurses. I believe that management and administration need to make some fundamental changes before anything will start to help.

GLDLPN · Sep 26, 2003

I can so identify with the things you all are sharing. After last night's shift, the part about not being able to get done what needs to be done, and feeling like you are short changing your patient and yourself and how much time an admission takes (when you are already having trouble getting done what needs to be done with out that) was how I was feeling. And when I read about how someone younger than myself is already feeling like it is too much, I felt like maybe there wasn't something wrong with me for feeling that way.

The part of what I have to do that irks me the most, is dealing with the impossible expectations of some of the patients or family members, and having to apologize and grovel to them for stuff that is totally not your fault or totally out of your power to fix.

I am 48 ~ have been in nursing for 25 years, I am already stiff and achy, I don't have a clue how I will be able to keep doing this until retirement age. (I love AMV's avatar ~ that is me when my days off come around.)

On another thread, it asked about good nursing moments ~ for me it is when a night is not as hectic, and you can take time to listen to your patient's when they need to talk, or just getting to know them as a person. At those times, I actually feel like they feel like I have made a difference.

Gayle

sonnynurse · Sep 26, 2003

Speaking of the Woman's Day Article..has anyone read the Reader's Digest Article on the ICU nurse? What a great article...I totally felt for this nurse as I completely relate to her stresses. That's how I feel most of the time as a nurse..the way she does..too many patients, too many distractions, to many people pulling you in different directions. This article is part two of a three parter..I have to search for last months article as I didn't see the first part. I love that I am a nurse..but most of the time I really don't know how I can go on at it. I am changing directions though and going from Med/Surg into OB/L&D. SO hopefully, the stresses will be a little less stressful? :confused:

AMV · Oct 1, 2003

Does readers digest post their stories online? I will have to check their site out. I haven't read those.

Along the same lines is another thread at https://allnurses.com/t45726.html

I will post below some really good info about the nursing shortage that was posted at this link - it basically says what the Woman's Day article points out - there ARE enough nurses to take care of the nursing shortage - if hospitals would improve pay and working conditions!

The info below was posted by -jt

------------------------------------------

yes. And that was proven by a recent Congressional study. The hospital associations were going to the government crying for more money & to increase recruitment from overseas with the excuse that the US doesnt have enough nurses. Before giving them any money or changing immigration laws, the 107th Congress wanted to know if what the hospitals were saying was true. So they commissioned a study to be done by the General Accounting Ofice in DC to find out where the US nurses were. The results were released in May 2001 and was immediately all over the news and in Nursing journals everywhere. The study found that while there are 126,000 vacant RN positions in the US, as reported by the American Hospital Assoc, there are 500,000 licensed RNs across the country who are not working in nursing. A high percentage of those nurses surveyed stated they would consider returning to the bedside if working conditions & compensations were improved. The study concluded that there IS an adequate available pool of nurses to draw back and there are more than enough licensed RNs already to end this current "shortage" tomorrow, even if only a fraction of those not working now came back. It also concluded that the current situation is not a real "shortage" yet (but will become a real shortage in numbers within 10 yrs as these nurses & others reach retirement age). They called the current lack of nurses at the bedside not a "shortage" but a "maldistribution" of RNs - and one that was manufactured by the hospitals. There are enough nurses now - they just dont want to work in those jobs. The GAO study blames "poor personnel decisions" on the parts of the employers & also urged them to take a good hard look at themselves, their own policies & practices to figure out why nurses do not want jobs at their institutions and to do something to rectify that. Congress threw the problem of RNs refusing to work in those conditions right back at the employers, basically telling them its their own fault if they cant find nurses cause there are nurses out there - Fix your problems & do something to bring those nurses back to work.

Links to the report were on almost every RN professional organization website and this one.

SheaTabRN · Oct 1, 2003

All the above stated reasons would make a huge impact on the state of the "nursing shortage." However, as a new grad, my most pressing complaint is the way I'm treated by "seasoned" nurses. Since graduating, I can not even begin to tell you how many trips to the bathroom I've made in tears r/t the comments/rude ways of fellow nurses. I'm not in any way trying to start a thread about nurses eating their young. I was so idealistic in nursing school that I hardly believed that it really happened. It does. Period. I would rather accept some of the other poor conditions in our field if people would just be consistently nice. If I had the option, I would go back to school immediately and change careers. Sadly, I would breathe a sigh of relief and never look back. It's devastating to me because I so enjoy working in the NICU (babes and families only). I plan to start school again in January '04 though.

Cheers!

Tab

GLDLPN · Oct 1, 2003

Hi Tab,

Don't quit ~ we need good nurses! It is sad that nurses treat each other that way. Maybe the nurses who act like that are under so much stress themselves, that they act in ways that they wouldn't normally ~ don't know because I don't know the people you work with. (Maybe something wrong with me ~ I am always trying to hope that there is good in people somehow.)

Gayle

Repat · Oct 2, 2003

Oh, Tab, I feel for you! I truly believe that one of the nursing profession's greatest weaknesses is the lack of properly trained managers. Attitudes come from the top, and new grads or returning nurses (which I was a couple of years ago) should be met with open arms. Don't let them get to you - I rememeber a post a while ago that said (in so many words) - in a year you will meet the new grad and realize "Oh, that was me not long ago". And then you will be there with your experience, willing and able to help them. Hang in there - you said yourself you love it!

AMV · Oct 2, 2003

I have worked in areas like that too. It is really hard and makes things more difficult when you are trying your best to learn everything.

I have been a nurse for almost 14 years and I always let the new interns know that I am there to help them and they can ask me ANYTHING - even if I look frazzled. And they do come up and ask questions or ask for help - starting that IV, trouble with a foley, etc. I think it is so important for those of us out there who have been nurses for awhile to not just be 'nice', but make that extra effort to let new nurses know we won't bite their head off if they ask us something! Remember what it was like when we were new??? We are going to have some that are experienced and some that are not. If those nurses stay - they will be more experienced some day too!

Not only that, but when we run new nurses off, we only serve to increase the turnover rate and things never get better! I think nurses who "eat their young" are probably just naturally short tempered - and yeah, probably stressed out. If we could all just see the big picture and how much better it would be if we all could help each other out and work together as a team you would find you had co-workers who stayed (thus, less turnover), people who were willing to help each other when things get crazy and more professional respect all around.

I used to work Pedi ICU and was sometimes floated to the NICU (feeders and growers) and the nurses at the one I worked with were GREAT! They were greatful for the help and never once got ugly about the countless questions I asked since I wasn't familiar with the routine. If things are so bad you feel you can't work there, go to your nurse manager. If that doesn't help, I would look elsewhere - there probably are other places to work! There are just some people that are like that and love to make other people miserable - because they themselves are miserable. It is worse when you get a whole clique of them!

RN-PA, RN · Oct 2, 2003

Originally posted by Hellllllo Nurse
I am an RN. I'm 38 years old, no kids.
I had planned on working full time for many years. But I'm only working two days aweek, because of the TERRIBLE WORKING CONDITIONS I've experienced out there.

My back is ruined from working as a nurse. I only work two days a week because that's all I can stand, physically, emotionally and mentally.

I'm 10 years older than you and in the same boat-- No kids, and I work 5 days/pay period (2 weeks). We could use the money that working more often would bring in, but I know that mentally and emotionally (I'm okay physically... For now... [knock wood]), I can't handle more than those 5 days with conditions as they are at the bedside. Wish I could...... :stone