Denied CA lvn license for 2 DUI's

Tiger747 · May 13, 2011

What does a D.U.I. have to do with performing the duties of a nurse. Well, unless you are drunk on the job.... nothing.

Google "discriminatory hiring practices involving misdemeanors" and you folks will see that many are suing, and...winning! The EEOC and EEO are warning companies not to use offenses unrelated to the perfomance of a the job applied for as an excuse not to hire.

Now, I know your problem is with the BON and not an employer-- yet-- but some of you folks need a good attorney to represent you at the BON.

Keep him/her on retainer, because you will need them again when you are looking for a job, unfortunately.

I guess in Boston, they have "banned the box"-- you know that box you have to check if you have ever committed a crime?

In all honesty, as unfortunate as it may seem, the BON may have done you a favor because denying your license allows you to put the idea of the career to rest. Had they granted you a license, you may have found yourself pounding pavement and sending in resumes for nearly a year to no avail like I am doing.

Getting the license is easy; finding a job with a criminal record is not. Actually, this is what the schools fail to tell you. I, too, was given a list of things the BON would look at. My little Simple Battery misdemeanor was not on there-- anywhere! Sure, I got a license. A probationary one that you cannot do anything with, and my offence is a decade old. I regret not having had an attorney at my hearing.

Good luck everyone. I feel your pain. So unfair. Only in America. LOL My European cousins just shake their head at the police state we have become.

SNIXRN · May 13, 2011

What does a D.U.I. have to do with performing the duties of a nurse. Well, unless you are drunk on the job.... nothing.

It has to do with poor judgement and putting innocent people (and potentially patients') lives at risk.

Tiger747 · May 14, 2011

It has to do with poor judgement and putting innocent people (and potentially patients') lives at risk.

With enough imagination, a relationship can be drawn between any two points. Who among us has not been guilty of poor judgement? At 23, you have not had a chance yet to even be under fire. Life happens.

Anyone driving with bad/worn brakes, sleepy-tired, or talking on a cell phone is just as guilty as someone marginally over the legal limit insofar as potentially risking someone's life. Now... I was taught patients are no longer patients, but "clients". Regardless, everyone is at risk. Our last president had a D.U.I.

The million-dollar question is: How long should someone have to pay for a misdemeanor? Many, many D.U.I.'s involve people who are just barely over the limit, and since everyone's metabolism is different, I cannot say with conviction that every quote/unquote "drunk driver" was, in fact, a risk to anyone any more than a tired construction worker driving home from work. We need to give people the benefit of the doubt. There is the "sloppy" habitual drunk driver; and, there is the person who drank 2 ounces too much and ran afoul of a Barney Fife in a town desperately needing revenue since no one is working anymore and property tax revenue is down 50%.

You cannot paint with broad strokes and lump everyone into a stereotypical generalization. Maturity and good critical thinking skills brings about a certain amount of humility.

kzimmermann · May 14, 2011

You cannot paint with broad strokes and lump everyone into a stereotypical generalization. Maturity and good critical thinking skills brings about a certain amount of humility.

Well said, Tiger747. On a side note, I used to commute with a woman who's husband let the tires bald on their minivan (not that she couldn't have taken care of it, but you know what I mean), an accident was caused resulting in a fatality, and they were seriously sued as a result and penalized for "negligence".

For me, there is a lot of penance I have done and continue to do with regards to my sins of the past and no amount of research, debate, arguing, etc. is going to change the mind of those who consider me a deficient person or one of poor moral character because I'm an alcoholic. Ain't nothin' I can do about it, and I don't own others' judgment.

The point here of the thread, however, is to help each other through the process of trying to get our licenses and provide advice, understanding, suggestions, etc. -- not to feel that we have to prove that we're decent human beings. That gets us away from this thread's objective and results in a never-ending, no-win debate.

For those of us technogeeks, I'll just say, "Don't pay toll to the troll."

Tiger747 · May 15, 2011

I hear you, kzimmermann. You are 100% spot-on.

Like Jeff, I, too, was handed a copy of the Indiana BON's by-laws upon acceptance in the nursing program.

I read them over inside and out and it became clear that they were concerned about criminal charges involving drugs (which makes sense IMO). The only other thing I noticed was that delinquent property taxes and child support payments were issues (which I perceive as somewhat unrelated, since both would be behind if you are unemployed, and being unemployed is not yet a crime).

Nowhere was there any mention of minor misdemeanors such as "simple battery", "D.U.I", or "fishing without a license". LOL Nowhere. I even read the whole thing again recently.

So, Jeff, I believe you weren't the only one duped into believing ancient history would be just that-- ancient history. I guess we got student loans for souveniers.

Miss_Taylor · May 20, 2011

At 23, you have not had a chance yet to even be under fire. Life happens.

Lol.

You cannot paint with broad strokes and lump everyone into a stereotypical generalization

Hmm.

tiredbeatupRN · May 20, 2011

Tiger747, I have read your posts and feel horrible for what you have had to endure. I just want to tell you that I enjoy reading your posts. You seem like a very intelligent and humbled person, and it is nursing's loss that you have not been given an opportunity to work after you completed your education and earned your license.

I really hope an employer decides to hire you and soon. Seems like you deserve a chance. Nursing really needs an asset like you!

Tiger747 · May 20, 2011

Thank you, tiredbeatupRN. I hope you are not too tired and beat up. LOL

You are very kind.

I met some great friends in nursing school, and I am amazed at their love and support. I helped them get through the classes, and now they try their best to help me. I am grateful for that alone. Stellar human beings that they are today, they will be absolute pillars with time. So I cannot say I did not get something out of it.

I think it is sad that the profession does not understand the benefits of life experience. Since the aging process pretty much dictates that the 2nd half of life is where most of us will have snowballing issues with health, it would seem that the medical profession would value the "peer support" aspect of having staff nearing similar straits to their clientele for reasons of real empathy borne of the ability to relate personally. After all, I did not have a criminal record or any health issues when I was 30, either. I was invincible then-- nothing would ever happen to me. LOL

It is like the Bonnie Raitt song, "Nick of Time" where she sees the changes aging brings to her parent's faces, knowing that they see the same in her-- making them both feel strange. My father always told me that there is no school like the "school of life."

Thanks again for your kind words and support.

Miss_Taylor · May 21, 2011

I understand where you're coming from, and don't disagree with the fact that there are some extenuating circumstances when it comes to who should or shouldn't obtain a nursing license. However, do you truly find it fair to say that anyone who is 23 has had less of a life experience than someone who is 40? I know many people who have dealt with unimaginable hardships at a very young age, and people who are in their forties whose biggest concern is getting their routine botox injection. I just don't think it's fair that you ask someone not to be stereotypical and then turn around and do just that. I think everyone has a story, and everyone should be respected for their story. I do wish you luck...I hope that everything works out for you. Where there's a will there's a way and you are obviously determined. So high five to you.:yelclap:

Tiger747 · May 22, 2011

It is simple math. It is not a slam. All I am saying is that no one can see what lies before them 10 years down the road. Experience can only be had over time. Number of years x life= experience.

My sister hounded me about my bad choice that led to the 2001 battery charge. She was right; I am guilty of being stupid. She was so smug and self-satisfactory. "I make great choices," she said.

Well, after 20 years of marriage, her husband dumps her, and she hasn't worked in a decade. I saw the divorce coming; everyone thought I was wrong, "No way," they said.

"Great choices?"

To say that a human being made a bad choice by drinking and driving goes without saying. However, once the person has paid their debt to society, it should be over. A poster on here claimed this "bad judgement" made 10 or 15 years ago should keep someone from getting their license. This poster happened to be 23.

No way can anyone 23 predict their future anymore than a person 40 predict where they will be at 60.

The math shows that the longer you live, the more chance you will have of something unpleasant, like a D.U.I., or battery, coming your way. If you have kids at 20, you will be 36 when they are 16. One day, you come home from work having had an unbelieveably bad day. Your daughter, 16, informs you that her boyfriend is spending the night. You say no way. She gets in your face, you slap her or even just push her away so you can go somewhere and cry. Guess what? You have just committed battery. There are numerous threads on here from single moms whose battery charges stem from child raising.

In Anderson, IN, they will arrest you for Public Intoxication when you walk from the door of the bar to your taxi cab you just called. Happened to an unbelieveable number of people. Made the headlines of the local paper. Guess what? The charges stuck. Now these innocent people are labeled "criminals".

You are correct. Unfortunately, many young people have gone through hell, and by 23 they have the wisdom of someone 40 or better. But there is always more to come, and most importantly, you can never say where you will be under fire. You jinx yourself with bad Kharma. The person that said committing a D.U.I. was bad judgement and therefore the "criminal" should not be a nurse

is guilty of what we call "famous last words."

B.O.N.s are extrapolating from a solitary incident what they fear might be a "pattern of behavior." This is wrong. It takes a minimum of 3 incidences to establish a pattern. One has to go with the facts to be objective. Everyone on that board can feel "inside" that a person with a D.U.I. will commit another; however, to be professional, they have to go with the facts before them. A single D.U.I should not be an issue whatsoever-- anywhere. Our last President had a D.U.I.

This whole digging up the past thing has gotten way out of hand.

alexiscc · May 23, 2011

It is simple math. It is not a slam. All I am saying is that no one can see what lies before them 10 years down the road. Experience can only be had over time. Number of years x life= experience.
My sister hounded me about my bad choice that led to the 2001 battery charge. She was right; I am guilty of being stupid. She was so smug and self-satisfactory. "I make great choices," she said.
Well, after 20 years of marriage, her husband dumps her, and she hasn't worked in a decade. I saw the divorce coming; everyone thought I was wrong, "No way," they said.
"Great choices?"
To say that a human being made a bad choice by drinking and driving goes without saying. However, once the person has paid their debt to society, it should be over. A poster on here claimed this "bad judgement" made 10 or 15 years ago should keep someone from getting their license. This poster happened to be 23.
No way can anyone 23 predict their future anymore than a person 40 predict where they will be at 60.
The math shows that the longer you live, the more chance you will have of something unpleasant, like a D.U.I., or battery, coming your way. If you have kids at 20, you will be 36 when they are 16. One day, you come home from work having had an unbelieveably bad day. Your daughter, 16, informs you that her boyfriend is spending the night. You say no way. She gets in your face, you slap her or even just push her away so you can go somewhere and cry. Guess what? You have just committed battery. There are numerous threads on here from single moms whose battery charges stem from child raising.
In Anderson, IN, they will arrest you for Public Intoxication when you walk from the door of the bar to your taxi cab you just called. Happened to an unbelieveable number of people. Made the headlines of the local paper. Guess what? The charges stuck. Now these innocent people are labeled "criminals".
You are correct. Unfortunately, many young people have gone through hell, and by 23 they have the wisdom of someone 40 or better. But there is always more to come, and most importantly, you can never say where you will be under fire. You jinx yourself with bad Kharma. The person that said committing a D.U.I. was bad judgement and therefore the "criminal" should not be a nurse
is guilty of what we call "famous last words."
B.O.N.s are extrapolating from a solitary incident what they fear might be a "pattern of behavior." This is wrong. It takes a minimum of 3 incidences to establish a pattern. One has to go with the facts to be objective. Everyone on that board can feel "inside" that a person with a D.U.I. will commit another; however, to be professional, they have to go with the facts before them. A single D.U.I should not be an issue whatsoever-- anywhere. Our last President had a D.U.I.
This whole digging up the past thing has gotten way out of hand.

When you see a very young person talking about botox injections as a sign of lack of life experience, we know what it means that experience only comes with time and age Try getting jobs when you get older and you'll find out that there's age-based discrimination everywhere, and the younger you look, the higher are your chances of getting hired.

Tiger747, you sound like a very bright person and honestly I think you can be successful in various careers, not just medical, since you've been having trouble because of record. Even with medical, moving away to a different state may solve a lot of problems. Smart people eventually figure things out and become successful, no matter how big are the barriers.

Miss_Taylor · May 23, 2011

Aye Aye Aye, I typed up a long response and my son hit refresh...and now it's gone! Anyways..in a short statement. Yes I agree with you both. My point was not to say that people with misdemeanors are bad people. My significant other is law enforcement, and all it takes is a "They hit me". It doesn't matter if he knows its one hundred percent BS...he or she is going to jail. It's a shame, and it's not always right. As for the botox, perhaps it was a bad example. I wasn't stating it was a lack of experience. I work in plastic surgery so obviously I have no problem with botox, fillers, or whatever your heart may desire lol. My point was simply to say that it's not fair to lump people in one age group and call them immature and unworldly, but then say that its unfair to stereotype all people with criminal histories. I'm not here to stir the pot, in fact I agree with you that many people have BS charges that have stuck with them for a very long time. I think that anyone with a simple misdemeanor charge should have the right to present their case before live bodies, and in a timely manner so that they aren't unemployed for a year while the BON drag their feet. I definitely do wish you the best of luck, and I hope the BON will realize you are an intelligent, and obviously determined person. The BON also needs to realize someone who is irresponsible, and makes poor decisions would more than likely NOT make it through nursing school. Again, I wish the very best for you =)...and perhaps we can chat politics another time! :lol2: Take care,

Taylor