Deadly Epidural

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People rarely complain or voice regret in the early pp days.

If you have contact later though you do hear that. I have. People hate being coerced into procedures!

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1) NO ONE knows what happened with the patient in the Dateline case. NO ONE. As always, TV "news magazine" shows are great at manipulating the story to make it as sensational and gut-wrenching as possible. They obviously succeeded. Speculate all you want. You think the hospital or the anesthesia provider or ANYONE is going to jump up and scream "OK, IT'S OUR FAULT" when NO ONE knows what happened? Get real.

2) NO ONE is forced to have an epidural. NO ONE. You wanna go without? Go without. There is not an anesthesia provider anywhere that's going to walk in the room and stick a big needle in your back against your will. Get real.

3) Nothing in life is without risk. Getting pregnant entails risk. Avoiding pregnancy entails risk. Driving a car and walking across the street entail risk. Like it or not, every medical procedure has risks, and there are NEVER guarantees as to outcomes. The vast majority of the time, things turn out fine. But that one in one million chance doesn't provide much consolation if you're that one in a million patient.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
If every patient wasn't demanding an epidural maybe it would be just a little easier for some of these interventions to be implemented.

How do you think you are going to walk around after an epidural if you can't feel your legs?

How do you think you are going to deliver in a variety of positions if you are so numb you can move your on legs or support yourself? BTW...historically (back in the caveman days) squatting is the position nature intended and opens the pelvis right up for baby to come out. All fours is also good for rotating baby, but can't do it or at least not without great difficulty if you have an epidural.

The tone of these postings is like all these poor innocent women are having the epidurals forced on them by the evil doctors....

I have worked at a dozen or so L/Ds and this is typically not the case. Either the patients have the plan for the epidural or they change their mind real quick once the pain comes. I don't blame them. I am a big weanie when it comes to pain. I would want one too.

RE: Informed consents...how much of an informed consent is possible when the patient is screaming out in 10/10 pain? That person is not going to listen to a thing you say. All they want is the pain gone. The solution is to educate before they are in active labor and get consent then. That is fine if they plan for an epidural. But what do you do when the patient is suffering in agony because she wanted to go natural and now changes her mind and wants an epidural. The anesthesia provider tries to sit down and explain everything to her. The only thing she wants to hear is that the pain is going away. The patient is not in the receptive learning mode at this point making an informed decision. That patient will sign anything to get the pain gone. Probably the best option is IV narcotics to get her under control and then do proper consent and then epidural with a pt under control. Let me know if you have a better way.

There is such a thing as a walking epidural during which the patient can walk around pretty comfortably. Of course, if everyone walked labors would be shorter. I know that some patients deserve an epidural pitocin drip is one example, but the fact is that patients do plan on an epidural before they even get to the hospital. Of course, pitocin drips - that's another thread. I was just reading an article about the overuse of pitocin and this one obstetrician - who had a one man practice (and I think that fact was inportant) who induced 90% of his patients because the patients expect everything quickly. Excuse me? I think his 90% rate had a lot to do with HIM, not with the ignorant patients who have no idea what the impetus is for a pit. drip. Once again, the doc says "let's start a pit drip" and so few women ask "What for"? I still believe that if midwives were conducting the

well-mother, well-baby deliveries we could return to sanity.

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WHAT A SAD STORY!

I've had 3 births...1 from hell, 1 heavenly...and 1 that could have ended in disaster if I could remember it. When you've had a Pitocin Induced birth, natural childbirth is absolutely heaven in comparison! I had NO breaks between contractions. 1 would start and just as it was relaxing another would begin. Even my last labor with back labor was more bearable.

I'm new here and had to just make a comment :)

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Specializes in NA, Stepdown, L&D, Trauma ICU, ER.
I have not seen this to be a common situation of the Obstetricians forcing epidurals on patients. It has been my experience that patients either plan for it in advance or request it quickly when the pain gets worse.

Our private docs aren't nearly as bad as the residents. The residents will say they really recommend the epidural and think it's best for the pt if they get one. What steams me is that they only do it to the moms that don't want the "garden hose"

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Specializes in surgical, neuro, education.

So freaking sad. We had a young mother about 8 years ago now in our town who died from beta hemolytic strep contracted during her C-section. She left behind 3 young children and a greiving community. She also kept telling the Dr. that something just wasn't right. She had baby in early July and was only seem by residents for almost 72 hours--her attending for some reason did not check on her. By the time they found the infection it was too late.

I sadly believe that we are going to be seeing more and more of this. When I went back to acute care after being away for 6 years, I couldn't believe the number of patients on our floor who had MRSA infections. The staff had gotten so used to seeing the signs that many times precautions were not maintained.

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3) Nothing in life is without risk. Getting pregnant entails risk. Avoiding pregnancy entails risk. Driving a car and walking across the street entail risk. Like it or not, every medical procedure has risks, and there are NEVER guarantees as to outcomes. The vast majority of the time, things turn out fine. .

well said...which is why pts choose epis. Its not that we are all uninformed ignoramuses. I've researched this to death ALL over the net. THere is conflicting 'evidence'. One study pointed out the fact that most epidural studies are based on very small population groups, and there are benefits, like shortening labor in some pts ( this happened to me w/ both my kiddos) Plus, if you're a pt whose had 2 epidurals already w/ no negative outcome ,its harder to justify going 'natural' .I also have to add w/ both my labors is was the nursing staff who pushed pain relief. My docs weren't even there yet...

2) NO ONE is forced to have an epidural. NO ONE. You wanna go without? Go without. There is not an anesthesia provider anywhere that's going to walk in the room and stick a big needle in your back against your will. Get real.

this is true, however when you are in a lot of pain and the nurse working w/ you keeps telling you 'If you don't get this now, you won't be able to, and you're gonna need it!!' its hard ( no not impossible) to stick to your natural birth plan! Just my 2 cents, but honestly, I think nurses ( some ) play a role in advocating epi use. Perhaps the rns who visit this board are more consciensious ( sp?) but the attitudes I encounter here are vastly different from what I've seen in the hospitals, or what my natural birthing friends report.

Look at it this way. If you are an avg pt, everyone you know has had labors w/ pain meds, that turned out fine and the drs and rns keep telling you its relatively safe, whats the incentive to go natural?

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Specializes in FNP, Peds, Epilepsy, Mgt., Occ. Ed.

I had two c-sections with epidural anesthesia. I was profoundly thankful to be awake. My husband was able to be in the room and my babies were healthy. I had no complications at all from either the epidurals nor the surgery.

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I had NO breaks between contractions. 1 would start and just as it was relaxing another would begin.

You brought back memories!!!!!

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Specializes in n/a.

I still believe that if midwives were conducting the

well-mother, well-baby deliveries we could return to sanity.

Amen!!!! Luckily I was educated before giving birth and was able to use a midwife. I had feared giving birth my whole life, but was enlightened by The Bradley birthing classes. Not only enlightened, but empowered with confidence that I could handle it. That my body was created to give birth and that it would function properly, if I didn't interfere. I had my first child at age 33 in an inflatable pool in my bedroom. She was born underwater, and that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion. Warm water is a great way to help relieve labor pain. The weightlessness was incredible and everything went smoothly.

There is an OB/GYN in Belgium who assists mothers in underwater childbirth who has a great philosophy on not intervening with the natural process of birth, if at all possible. There's a video on him which shows these births. It's incredible! My sister who is in nursing school showed it for her presentation on alternative birth and her (female) professor wanted to clone or marry this OB/GYN. The video is entitled "Waterbirth at Odent" and I highly recommend it. It's amazing to see this OB leave these adorable babies underwater for a minute or two as they become accustomed to their new found freedom. Awesome! We didn't leave our baby under, but left her body in the water while holding her head above the water. What a beautiful experience! I understand that births don't always go that well, and complications sometimes arise, but I wanted to share my incredible experience for anyone considering a drug-free birth. It is possible and very rewarding. Thanks!

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