Jonathan Slonin, an anesthesiologist and past president of the Florida Society of Anesthesiologists, believes that lawmakers should not allow the administration of anesthesia without a physician in the room. Although he works with and respects Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists (CRNAs), they are not physicians.
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They have years of training, but they are not trained in medical diagnosis and treatment, and while they are highly skilled and a vital part of the medical care team, they should never be the lead of that team.
While the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists are advocating for a proposed bill that would allow CRNA’s to practice without the supervision of a physician, some see this as a dangerous and costly move.
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...safety should be the primary goal and that is why physician-led care must remain the standard. If CRNAs were given complete independence to practice complex medicine, costly mistakes will happen. And when they do, we all pay for those mistakes through increased healthcare costs.
It sounds as if you don't know what NPs do either, as well as CRNAs. I'm a critical care NP with 30 years experience, also a CCRN, and I've worked with some absolutely amazing critical care NPs that can run rings around the residents. Not all of us have completed online degrees. I myself went to a top 100 school to do my graduate degree, and it wasn't online. I also did my clinical rotations in the best hospitals in the state. As a student I was given my own patients and expected to perform at exactly the same levels as the MDs. There's a whole class of acute NPs who are very well versed in the role, and very well educated. When you spout personal opinion that smacks of derision and jealousy, it speaks volumes about the weight of your opinion. It's hard to take what you say seriously.
As far as CRNAs go, they've been practicing safely and independently for decades and have proved their worth many times over. There are multitudes of studies to support this. This is a disproven theory.
Not quite understanding why you all think online schooling is a bad thing, but okay. Sitting your *** in front of a lecturing professor in a classroom is not better than listening to a recorded lecture online. In fact, I would argue that listening to the lecture and having the ability to rewind and take more notes is more conducive to a better learning experience.
I just fail to see that schooling can be very intense if you can still manage to work full time while completing it. One reason why I see CRNA as more challenging than NP.
Couldn’t imagine working full time while being a medschool student..
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I know plenty of people who have worked full-time while in med school. In fact, amongst my physician colleagues, not working is the exception, rather than the rule.
That’s not the experience I have heard. Every physician I spoke to acted surprised I even asked. Doesn’t sound laughably easy like RN school. The nurses that went MD explained it if RN school is explaining how a library works, it’s operation hours, what books are found where etc, medical school is knowing the composition of the concrete that is used to make the foundation, what kind of wiring is used, the tensile strength of the rebar used to build it, along with every other aspect of the building.
I just fail to see that schooling can be very intense if you can still manage to work full time while completing it. One reason why I see CRNA as more challenging than NP.
Couldn’t imagine working full time while being a medschool student..
Not working while in school is a luxury some people can't afford. Also, as a floor nurse, I have four whole days off to study and do homework as well as a few hours a night after my shifts to get some serious work done.
Working full-time has not only kept me out of debt, it has forced me to stay on top of my school work. I know some classmates who didn't work at all who did not pull the solid grades that those of us who worked did. I worked full-time and had a PRN job (2 12s every six weeks) and managed to get solid As in my classes (one of them being Patho).
I have worked two jobs consistently for about seven years now...it is all I know. I don't have much of a social life between school and work.
It can be done. Med school students can and do work. Check out student doctor network. There are people who work crazy hours and manage to pull it off.
That’s not the experience I have heard. Every physician I spoke to acted surprised I even asked. Doesn’t sound laughably easy like RN school. The nurses that went MD explained it if RN school is explaining how a library works, it’s operation hours, what books are found where etc, medical school is knowing the composition of the concrete that is used to make the foundation, what kind of wiring is used, the tensile strength of the rebar used to build it, along with every other aspect of the building.
Are you going to be a good physician or just another jerk? The good physicians I know are not disdainful of others' educations, are not arrogant, are respectful of what everyone on the team brings to the table and understands that patients are social beings, so pays attention to the social aspects of care. You said in more than one post that you found nursing school to be too attentive to the "social" aspects, which is incredibly "boring" to you. That is a huge red flag to me in someone who is interested in pursuing medicine.
We don't need more physicians who view patients as a body and nothing else, and we don't need physicians who have a God complex either. Please don't be that guy.
No I’m actually known for my bedside manner. I just don’t think being personable is something that can be taught. Either you have it or you don’t. Ive been good at that since I was a small child. I see it as a waste of time to teach. I just feel like nursing needs to hit the sciences more heavily if they’re going to expand their scope of care is all.
Poor bedside manner is a big pet peeve of mine. I’ve had several talks with residents that stare at their damn phones when talking to the patient. It’s disrespectful and wastes time. The patient ends up not knowing what’s going on and they have to come back and explain things to them a second time when they could have given their undivided attention and addressed everything the first time. And some foreign docs won’t look me or the patient in the eye, which annoys me. Makes you feel like they’re not listening. Had that issue in Iraq when I was interrogating detainees. It’s a culture thing, so I get it. Just annoying is all.
Are you going to be a good physician or just another jerk? The good physicians I know are not disdainful of others' educations, are not arrogant, are respectful of what everyone on the team brings to the table and understands that patients are social beings, so pays attention to the social aspects of care. You said in more than one post that you found nursing school to be too attentive to the "social" aspects, which is incredibly "boring" to you. That is a huge red flag to me in someone who is interested in pursuing medicine.
We don't need more physicians who view patients as a body and nothing else, and we don't need physicians who have a God complex either. Please don't be that guy.
I have a feeling this person, if he or she even makes it through or into med school, will end up being "that guy." Which is a shame, because the RNs turned MDs are usually some of the nicest, most respectful people I have ever worked with.
There’s a reason my patient satisfaction rates are high. Patients deserve the best care, and if advocating for more education is a bad thing, I don’t want to be right.
Know how often I see nurses playing fast and loose with crystalloids, or which reconstitution solution they use? Many times it doesn’t matter, but it can. I don’t blame the nurses. We need more in-depth education so they understand molarity, polarity of substances, etc.
Im not down on nursing, trust me. The field has come SO far since say the 50s. But every time I have been to a state board meeting it is full of elderly women 70+ years old that don’t understand much of today’s life in general or nursing today. Telling us to organizationally invest in CDs (which would have been great advice in years past but as of late, have a laughable return rate), or the heavy focus on nursing care plans that we wasted so much time on in nursing school, but no one uses today as far as I see. (My nurse manager told me this was a big thing in the 70s but agreed that it is old and outdated). Nursing has a lot of “dinosaur” facets and needs to further grow.
We are gaining scope, but need to also attain greater education.
But I will keep you updated on whether I make it into med school. I know the MCAT will be much harder than the joke of a nursing entrance test was. ? Ill definitely have to bring my A game.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
7 hours ago, Horseshoe said:
Are you going to be a good physician or just another jerk? The good physicians I know are not disdainful of others' educations, are not arrogant, are respectful of what everyone on the team brings to the table
Thank you. Army - you are acting kind of insufferable.
No, thank YOU , Klone, for picking JUST the right word. I was busy laughing about nursings' failure to pay enough educational hours devoted to molarity- as if no one here took high school chemistry. Obviously this is a person who sees the zebras as the more important concepts to conjure on.
ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP
1 Article; 2,594 Posts
John Hopkins medical students are not required to go to didactic lectures in person and have an online portion....bet you don't look down on them!