Could I have done anything else?

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I was working in ICU the other night (technically as a float nurse, although I was given a patient assignment), and was receiving a patient from the ED. He was in his late 70s (78, I believe), and resided in a skilled nursing facility. The patient had a past history of HTN, hyperlipidemia, dementia, CHF, renal failure, MI X 3, CABG X 2, two cardiac stents, and DM. Apparently, he had been in the dining room at lunch, had become cyanotic and hypoxic, and was rushed to the ED with sats in the 70s.

The patient was placed on BiPAP, a CXR was done, and labs were obtained. The blood gas, of course, wasn't great. The patient was in respiratory acidosis with a pH of 7.1 and CO2 in the 60s. CXR revealed a left lower lobe infiltrate. Initial troponin (drawn at approximately 1330) was 0.142. The patient received a one time dose of Levaquin in the ED, but the admitting physician decided not to continue antibiotics in ICU because she felt that his WBC of 8.2 wasn't indicative of infection.

When the patient arrived to ICU (at approximately 1946), his troponin had increased to 2.44. The ED had noted evidence of a lateral infarct on his EKG, but could not determine the age of said infarct. Vitals were stable, and he was in normal sinus rhythm. After a few hours, however, his BP began to steadily trend down. It got to as low as 90/37 before stabilizing. Heart rate also began decreasing (although I feel that this occurred as the BiPAP was optimized, his gas improved, work of breathing eased, and he became less anxious).

I inquired with both the ED and the charge nurse about the acutely elevated troponin in someone with such a cardiac history. I also asked about whether it would be prudent to start antibiotic therapy on an elderly patient with a known infiltrate on CXR. I asked the charge nurse three to four times about whether or not the physician needed to be called. No one else on the unit acted like it was a big deal, but I was greatly concerned.

The patient denied chest pain, however he did have advanced dementia. I don't know that this was reliable information. I was pulled to another unit at 0400, however, I did see his 0600 labs. By 0600, WBC had increased to 18.2, potassium was elevated at 5.5, creatinine and BUN had both further increased (although he had a history of renal failure, and was dehydrated). Troponin had increased again to 2.568. The blood gas was much better, and had almost returned to normal, but that was the only thing that looked decent.

I realize that CHF and pneumonia can elevate the troponin. However, the BNP was 73, and the infiltrate noted on CXR wasn't especially large. I know that a PE can also elevate the troponin, however this patient showed no signs of a PE. I feel like the troponin was truly an indication of cardiac damage, and that treatment did not reflect this.

I just wonder if I, personally, could have done anything else, or if maybe I made too much of a big deal out of his condition. No one else in ICU seemed concerned with anything, and I felt like my concerns were very minimized by staff. Did I blow this out of the water, or was I justified? And what would you more experienced nurses have done if you were in my position?

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
Calivianya, I once had 9 patients on the telemetry/oncology unit. One received 12 units of blood over the course of the shift, one had a BP of 240/120, one was a CVA in progress, one was a metastatic colon, breast, and lung cancer with a central line, TPN, blood, lipids, mag, and potassium infusing. She had an NG and a Foley, was bed bound, turn, dry, and clean, and was going to surgery for a malignant bowel obstruction the next morning. One was terminally ill and dying, and I was trying to provide for his family. One was an ICU step-down because ICU was full, and needed the bed. He had suffered an MI one day prior to me having him. We had no CNA that night, and were working with three nurses on a 30 bed unit.

That sounds insane and so unsafe. #1 should have been in ICU. #2 should have gone to tele or stepdown if it didnt get under control #3 sounds like an oncology patient, but a hard one, #4 again oncology, #5 you already said belonged in stepdown. Wow.

I work in an ICU and we have extensive autonomy, I would never ask the Charge RN if I should call the MD, if you don't know when to call then you shouldn't be working there.

The ED on the other hand has very little autonomy, they don't even titrate their own pressors.

I guess every hospital is different :)

Specializes in Trauma ICU, Neuro ICU, Surgical ICU, ED.

superT, I agree that if you don't know when to call, you should't be working in the ICU setting. The ED tends to do basically whatever they want, and I feel that I have way more autonomy when working down there (granted, some of the nurses there kind of scare me with the knowledge they lack). However, ICU, the telemetry floors, and the medical floors have ZERO autonomy. It seems that charge and the MD control everything, and you constantly have to run things by someone else for approval. This is incredibly frustrating when you already have an idea of what to do, and know that it needs to be done in a timely fashion.

Specializes in SICU, trauma, neuro.

Why does this place hire RNs? Monkeys would be so much cheaper, and seem like they would fit their needs quite well. I mean they wouldn't have to worry about them trying to use nursing judgment or anything! :sarcastic:

Specializes in Trauma ICU, Neuro ICU, Surgical ICU, ED.

Here.I.Stand, thank you! That's exactly how I feel sometimes. As if I went to school, got my education, and am now being stripped of half the rights and privileges of the degree I pursued. We learned so much more in school, and even more through working in the real world, than to be told that we have no nursing judgement. And, despite what a doctor may say, I refuse to give a medication that I am certain will harm the patient. I'm just not risking patient harm, or my license to please anyone.

Specializes in Neuro ICU and Med Surg.

OMG you need to run from that place! It sounds terrible. I would never be able to consult charge every time I felt I needed to speak with a MD. I would have just called.

Specializes in Trauma ICU, Neuro ICU, Surgical ICU, ED.

I called and checked on the patient today once I got to work, and settled things in the department. Turns out he did, in fact, have an NSTEMI while in the unit the night I admitted him. He still has no antibiotic despite a high WBC count. He has been taken off of BiPAP and placed on nasal cannula, and his blood gas is beginning to become abnormal again (with a dropping pH, and an abnormally low O2). He is now incredibly agitated and confused, and is receiving IV Haldol and Ativan for this. This is a new change, as he was very pleasant (although confused) when I admitted him, and as I cared for him. BP is labile, and is hypertensive at times (180s/90s), normal at others, and much lower at others (100s/50s-60s). I am greatly concerned, and feel like he has been done a huge disservice.

Specializes in SICU, trauma, neuro.
Here.I.Stand, thank you! That's exactly how I feel sometimes. As if I went to school, got my education, and am now being stripped of half the rights and privileges of the degree I pursued. We learned so much more in school, and even more through working in the real world, than to be told that we have no nursing judgement. And, despite what a doctor may say, I refuse to give a medication that I am certain will harm the patient. I'm just not risking patient harm, or my license to please anyone.

I'll never forget the "It's your license" story I was told in nursing school (and sometimes I do feel like the "it's my license!" protests on this board can come off as a bit paranoid...this is not one of them!! I mean like the "how can they float me from general LTC to memory care? It's my license!!")

Anyway, an instructor told us about this baby who had surgery. The surgeon wrote for a morphine CADD--a quite high dose. The anesthesiologist was aware of the order and said nothing. The pharmacist dispensed it. The RN administered it without question...and the baby quickly got overnarcotized and died. Guess who was the ONLY one of the four to be disciplined? Yes she should have questioned it, and I'm sure she had a hard time forgiving herself (if she has been able to), and I'm sure she only meant to treat the baby's post-op pain.

But this story illustrates how we MUST use our nursing judgment because people's LIVES depend on it. Both MDs and the pharmacist have more education than an RN does, and their decisions proved fatal to a little baby. We cannot substitute others' judgment for our own. If the doctor insists on a wildly unsafe med administration, they will have to do it themselves...while you get the crash cart.

FWIW, it's not like this everywhere. In fact I'd guess that nearly anywhere else, if you called a physician for permission to hold an ordered dose of insulin on a pt with a BG of 40, you would be torn a new one for not using your brain. Not to mention they would lose all confidence in and respect for you as a professional.

Time to get the heck outta Dodge! :nailbiting:

You sound like you have impeccable critical thinking skills, and I think you will make a great ICU nurse!

Specializes in Trauma ICU, Neuro ICU, Surgical ICU, ED.

Here.I.Stand, you are exactly right in what you have said, and I totally agree. The incident I mentioned earlier in the comments about how my primary manager took issue with the way I handled a situation involved me telling the doctor, "I'm not giving 40 of Lasix to a patient with a systolic BP in the 50s. But if you would like to give it, I would be glad to retrieve it for you. I will just make sure to document who gave it, as I don't feel comfortable with that." This was apparently disrespect and overstepping my bounds.

Thank you for your kind words. I feel like my experience thus far has really taught me a lot, and I am grateful for the things I have learned at this hospital. However, it certainly is time to move on. I'm very grateful that I have landed an interview in an ICU full time, and I hope to secure a new job soon.

On an FYI legal note: As nurses, we practice under our own licenses and are accoundtable for our decisions and actions. Nurses can no longer use the excuse of documenting that we called the doctor or notified the charge nurse. More frequently in courts of law and malpractice cases, nurses are being sued individually and are responsible for their own actions and decisions. I don't say this to scare you or to imply that there will be any pending legal action here, but many hospitals will likely only cover you IF you are currently employed at that facility if a lawsuit does arise, so I highly suggest getting your own for the future regardless, but especially if you end up staying at that facility. From what you describe, this hospital caters to physicians b/c they likely bring in the cash for the hospital and it sounds as if nurses at your facility are encouraged to fuction with very little autonomy. I think your decision to seek employment elsewhere is a wise one as your profession does not sound like its valued or supported from the institution you work for. Discussing the pt presentation with your colleagues can help you work through the details & I suggest asking for their rationale in their decisions (ie, NOT calling the MD in regards to the elevating troponin and hypotension) and if you dont agree with their evidence or rationale, then you have to elevate the chain of command to advocate for your patient.

As far as your patients case, your thought processes are on the right track as far as thinking on an advanced level. From your story and your findings, my concern(s) here would have been the obvious you already mentioned and: 1) aspiration, 2) septic shock 3) cardiogenic shock, 3) multi system organ failure. I would have been VERY concerned from the beginning about the known diagnosis of PNA and sepsis causing a coaglation cascade, thereby causing a thrombus which may have found its way to his heart, lungs or any other essential organ. This may have been the thought process of the doctors in mention to the shift in oxygen dissociation curve? If he already had a known pneumonia, he likely needed more than Levaquin so you were correct in your inquiries in reference to antibiotic therapy. Although his drop in pressure could have been related to initiation of the BiPAP, but with the elevating WBC count, I would have been thinking about aggressive sepsis treatment. If he had infiltrates on his CXR, he may have been fighting the pneumonia for a while. Was there ever a lactate done ? If he was elderly AND was septic, the pt was likely more confused from his baseline which made it difficult for you to assess him in regards to him having any chest pain or complaints. It sounds as if you were concerned regarding cardiac damage and I think your concerns were warrented, but would this patient have been a candidate for another cardiac cath, thrombolytics or another CABG if that were the case ? Food for thought...

The nursing shortage will peak and fall as it always has through the centuries. For now, take yourself and find a job in a facility where you are valued and appreciated, wherever that may be. You owe it to yourself.

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