According to the Associated Press as cited in the Post article, "Cuba has made recent advancements in biotechnology and exports its treatments to 40 countries around the world, raking in an estimated $100 million a year. ... In 2004, the U.S. government granted an exception to its economic embargo against Cuba and allowed a California drug company to test three cancer vaccines developed in Havana."
:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: Don't let the fear mongers and uninformed sidetrack you. SB840(California) and HR676---simply put all the money we are already spending in one pot and pay the providers. There is no government control over the hospitals or staff. We Nurses see the horror every day. I have seen patients who delay treatment because they can't afford the medications, patients who can't come to us for specialized care because they don't have insurance. Patients that have had surgery but can't go to rehab or a SNF because they have medicade and we know it will be a long wait before anyone accepts them. My cousin got laid off, started her own business and was uninsurable because she had had surgery for fibroids. How many tragic stories do you have to hear or experience yourself before you get it??? Our system only beneifts the insurance companies. The Revolution has just begun. You think you are safe and insured? check this out --- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16874285/site/newsweek/
Quoting Darren:"You can't make an argument for socialized/single-payer based on whether or not a Canadian won't make a total exchange of the Canadian system for an Aetna card...
...
And there is no evidence that the American system will be improved at all, let alone "vastly improved" by changing to a single-payer system."
And Darren, I'm not making an argument based on that.
18,000 Americans will die this year because they don't have access to care (no insurance)
Untold more who thought they were properly insured, will be denied the care they need and progress to problems that will lead to unnecessary suffering, disability and death.
This happens because insurance companies and other for-profit health care providers need to make profits. In actual fact, it is their fiduciary duty and responsibility to their shareholders to make as much profit as possible. They make profits by overcharging, delaying care, denying care, and renigging on already approved care. The more of our premiums they keep, the more profit they make. The less care they give, the higher their profit margins.
Did you know that a single-payer system can be administered for less than 5%; in some countries less than 2%? Know how much profit insurance companies take? On average 31%. That's billions of dollars that should be going to your MRI or a baby's well-baby check-up or a diabetic's supplies and education and medicines. You get the idea.
With a single-payer like HR 676 or California's SB 840, everybody's in, nobody's out. Everybody's covered. That already is a vast improvement over our current situation.
You can choose your own doctor and hospital. Every doctor will be paid for every patient seen and every hospital will be paid for every patient treated (that doesn't happen in our current system).
Drugs are covered, medical equipment, vision care.
You can cover everybody with all the basics when you take the money that is already in the system and use it smarter for actual care---not profits.
With cost eliminated as an obstacle, people can go get preventative care as well as care that will nip illnesses in the bud. This will lead to a healthier, stronger society.
I went to help out after Hurricane Katrina. I saw people who were receiving a medical check-up for the first time in years. People with hypertension and diabetes. People with strokes and blindness because they couldn't afford the medicines necessary to keep their illnesses in check. People who could have led active, productive lives had they had the opportunity to have a constant supply of blood pressure medicine or insulin. That was a real life disgrace that we all saw on our TVs and yet we did nothing about it.
Universal health care rights those wrongs and makes us a better, healthier people. But rest assured it does matter what kind of "universal care" we choose. If we choose to include all those who raid the system for profits like the for-profit insurers and HMOs, we will not have universal care. If we choose single-payer we will.
I too refuse to pad Moore's socialist agendized wallet. A single-payer system like Canada, France, etc. is not "Guaranteed healthcare for all!" Hopefully, many of you've heard the news this week about about how broken and pathetic those country's systems are. In one country, the judicial system allowed the overturning of the 18 week waiting period to get into hospitals 18 WEEKS! and now that turns into an even longer wait with the court's ruling! As a nurse-to-be, I am not in favor of this type of socialized medicine that amounts to letting natural selection or survival of the fittest occur. I'm sure many of us have heard horror stories about waiting for care in these "model" countries. I don't call that compassion, which is what I hope to provide for the people I get to care for.
I do think improvements are needed in our country's health system but socialized medicine is not the answer. Remember, we still live in a country where hospitals write-off millions of dollars every year because they will treat anyone who walks in the doors, regardless of their ability to pay.
One of many examples I've read of include a baby who had to be transferred to Seattle from British Columbia for treatment and sent home with instructions to have a follow-up MRI within 6 weeks. The mother thought that would be a reasonable timeline back in Canada but was shocked to find a 6 to 9 Month waiting period.
So, jadwinnurse2b, how long do you think the 47 million Americans who have no insurance have to wait to get health care? Sometimes they die waiting...
And when these individuals show up in the ER to be stabilized, do you think that is optimal care? Shouldn't they have been able to get treatment at the beginning of their illness instead of when things became catastrophic? which is when most of the uninsured show up in the ER.
We are not talking about socialized medicine. Nor neglected systems that have had to endure 6 years of cuts as the VA has.
We are talking about single-payer where the private doc does his or her thing and gets compensated for it from a single source.
Right now there are 700-1000 different insurers. Can you imagine the paper work (all different) and the formularies (all different) and the requirements for treatments (all different) that doctors and patients have to negotiate to try to get care? It's an endless bureaucracy.
Can you imagine the minions of clerks who review the requests for treatment by doctors who have actually examined the patient and determined a treatment; clerks who don't have any medical training and whose only connection to the patient is the form in their hand; clerks who have been given the authority from the insurance company via lists and protocols to know better than the examining doctor what the patient needs? Can you imagine these minions of clerks whose sole job is to find any and every way to deny the doctor and the patient the medical treatment plan? Clerks with maybe only a high school degree determining medical care. That's what happens in our current medical system.
Single payer means streamlined administration. LESS bureaucracy. Medical treatment decisions in the hands of medical professionals.
That's far better than what we have now and far safer. Definitely something I'd rather have for myself and my loved ones.
Goodness, I'm glad to see there is plenty of emotion on this subject. I think that shows genuine concern for patients.
Yes, I'm glad we are in agreement. As I said in my post, improvements are needed in our current system and it has areas that are broken but I (and I would guess many others) believe the current Canadian and European systems are not good models.
I also don't think its healthy to kowtow to Michael Moore who many would classify as a communist promoter and sympathizer.
I think we can all agree that we deserve better healthcare, but how does going to a movie and feeding Micheal Moore more money have to do with that?
I can feel one way about healthcare reform, and still find Micheal Moore not credible all at the same time.
But, why do we, as nurses, need to see a movie about this when we see it everyday in real life? I'm not giving MM a dollar for anything, and I certainly would cringe at the thought that he's somehow "standing up" for us. The only thing he stands up for is the mightly dollar--and he's getting none of mine..
Specializes in Cardiac Surg, IR, Peds ICU, Emergency.
1. Can you please either stop refuting the false claim that 40-something million people are uninsured, or address the facts. BTW, if waiting is an issue that causes death, why would you want to go to a 'waiting-list' system?
2. If claims are made that thousands will die because of lack of insurance, could you show a reference.
"...Canada's provinces spend nearly 45 percent of their budgets on health care - The New York Times, August 22, 2006"
Specializes in Cardiac Surg, IR, Peds ICU, Emergency.
Thanks for the link. Now allow me to point out (once again), an item BLATANTLY ignored by people who like to use that statistic; this is for a time period of TWO YEARS.
It does not reflect a point in time, which is a significantly more accurate number, and puts the issue (and resolution), in a far more accurate perspective. Meanwhile, if people are not able to put the issue in perspective, they won't be able to determine a realistic resolution.
I reviewed the link regarding uninsured deaths; it makes that statement several times, but not one time does it reference how it obtained that info. So I found several other links that reported that the IOM estimated that number (BTW, these were pro-single-payer sites, not opponents).
I cannot apologize for asking for facts, not estimates.
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
I think we can all agree that we deserve better healthcare, but how does going to a movie and feeding Micheal Moore more money have to do with that?
I can feel one way about healthcare reform, and still find Micheal Moore not credible all at the same time.
But, why do we, as nurses, need to see a movie about this when we see it everyday in real life? I'm not giving MM a dollar for anything, and I certainly would cringe at the thought that he's somehow "standing up" for us. The only thing he stands up for is the mightly dollar--and he's getting none of mine..
mdfog10
177 Posts
:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: Don't let the fear mongers and uninformed sidetrack you. SB840(California) and HR676---simply put all the money we are already spending in one pot and pay the providers. There is no government control over the hospitals or staff. We Nurses see the horror every day. I have seen patients who delay treatment because they can't afford the medications, patients who can't come to us for specialized care because they don't have insurance. Patients that have had surgery but can't go to rehab or a SNF because they have medicade and we know it will be a long wait before anyone accepts them. My cousin got laid off, started her own business and was uninsurable because she had had surgery for fibroids. How many tragic stories do you have to hear or experience yourself before you get it??? Our system only beneifts the insurance companies. The Revolution has just begun. You think you are safe and insured? check this out --- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16874285/site/newsweek/