Concerns with brand new nurses

NursePeace · Nov 11, 2008

[quote=NursePeace;3240154]I agree with all of your opinions but, I do believe alot of the "ignorance" is directly related to these small nursing schools who charge out the wazooo with no entrance exams and really arent providing adequate clinical experience. My school in particular. )
What small nursing school are you attending?..

Well its not really small anymore, but crappy yes. Brown Mackie. There are facilities in my city that wont hire you if your resume has Brown mackie on it. I think they are trying to improve now. But whooo knows.

lexaa777 · Nov 11, 2008

I thought the main message in your post was that you were sick of new grad nurses, from quickie schools with low standards, which is why i thought the phrase "nurses eat their young" was entirely appropriate, since you Are only 2 years out yourself (i wasnt counting your family's accomplishments), and you seem to have forgotten already how it is to be a recent grad. It seems to me that the phrase is entirely accurate, and unfortunately you seem to have caught an early onset case of it. (in my humble opinion) :) i think it is great though that despite this ailment, you can still give stellar orientations to all those eager grads. Hats off to you, Please, Please remember, everyone starts somewhere, & so did you! Warm Regards :)

FlowerbuddRN2B · Nov 11, 2008

Since graduating with my LPN, I've made it my sworn duty to make sure every student that passes my way has an awesome experience. So far I have gotten LPN students, ADN and BSN. Technically the RN students are supposed to be preceptored by RN's, but my unit is so small that when we have 2 nurses working, 2 patients, and 2 students, we split them up. I make it a point to have my student chart that day, in the actual chart, chart the assessment, read Dr's orders, note them, pass the meds, (few to pass on peds), check that iv site and flush it if int'd, or up and change the bag), do the assessment while I watch, do some parent education and chart those papers, and when we have some IM's they get to grab a thigh and give one. I'm always shocked how many say they've never gotten to write in a chart before. A lot say they just get to do vitals or cleaning up. I know my OB clinicals were like that. I've noticed a few of the nurses I work with are the same way as me, and some just let them follow around. I'm all about see one, do one. How can you learn if you don't touch??

But as to the subject, short orientation.. I took a second job in a LTAC , trachs, vents, etc, and they were going to give me 2 days of orientation. I walked. I've been talking to a lot of nurses, not new grads, they are getting their required 6 weeks and PBDS.. etc, but nurses who start new jobs in places, who get no orientation. That's just scary IMO.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Nov 11, 2008

Does anyone feel that too much detail in anatomy and nutrition takes away valuable time from learning labs? Just curious as I taught in an LPN program a few years ago......

What I do believe is the presentation of these courses, because they are usually given from an individual standpoint rather than a collaboration. What I mean by that is if people are taught about the relevance of these things to nursing rather than just shoving facts down their throats, it would mean more. It was like learning in a box to me. An example is that I never had a chance to fully appreciate anatomy (or even understand it), until AFTER I graduated, and purchased a paperback textbook called "The Human Body in Health and Illness" by Herlithy. This, to me, is an excellent text that doesn't lose the terminology, but correlates with simple facts that most people hear of that allows one to comprehend anatomy and how it relates to nursing. Now, had I been taught THIS way, rather than the roundabout bull that school gave me, I would have had a heads up. I feel even moreso now, that I did, in fact, waste valuable time being frustrated over facts that I did not understand, and had to resort to memorization rather than comprehension and correlation.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Nov 11, 2008

I agree with all of your opinions but, I do believe alot of the "ignorance" is directly related to these small nursing schools who charge out the wazooo with no entrance exams and really arent providing adequate clinical experience. My school in particular. Im sooo thankful for my previous experience and actually helped alot of my fellow students. I ALWAYS give my fellow new nurses 100% in orientation!! And will cont to do so!! Thanks for your feedback =]

Hmmmmm, just a hunch, but ........ chances are that the same "type" of new nurses you're posting about
were also coming out of school back in your relatives heydays, and when you graduated as well....which, 2 years doesn't make you all that much of a veteran, especially since you fess up to coming from the type of school you describe/complain about. There are good nurses, some not so good ..... some are recent grads, some not. You know the old saying, I'm sure...one bad apple etc, etc, etc....
Everybody in my program busts their butts ....... starting out as a new LPN is a lil intimidating - be kind, compassionate, and guiding, don't whine about these "new nurses" .... you were new not very long ago, and how quickly you seem to have forgotten

I think I myself made it pretty clear that Im too am a new nurse. I definently never claimed to be a veteran. As far as the rest of your reply, you took the words right outta my mouth or better yet my post. Im not "whining" Im simply giving my opinion on some observations Ive noticed. I have noooo problem helping or guiding brand new nurses. And I would never in my life be rude to a new nurse. I try and help anyway possible. I think maybe alot of facilities need to upgrade orientation. You know some facilities give brand new nurses 2 weeks!!?? Thats just crazy to me. The point of the post is just to get opinions, not to offend anyone. So I would appreciate it if you wouldnt try to offend me.

I also believe that NursePeace did not belittle new nurses as well as acknowledged that she is also relatively new to the field. Some of what I got out of her messages is that the quality of nursing education has changed and it is not correlating to the quick, incomplete/inaccurate orientations that are currently being provided to new grads. I also graduated from a 'quick solution' school, I believe. We barely got to spend time in clinicals because most of the CIs were friends of the program director (by the way, this was a brand new program) who worked in other places. We had evening clinicals, and these CIs used to come late, only want to stay 2-3 hours and gave us one patient each. Sometimes, they used to call at the last minute and cancel out clinicals. I can't count how many times my cell phone rang while in route to my clinical site to be told that it was canceled, and I had to turn around to come home. It did allow me to graduate top of the class, but it didn't give me the confidence to practice as a nurse. I had to dip into the waters slowly...very slowly.

In addition, you have to think that the same nurses that had equally as crappy orientations are suddenly told to orient someone else; which is still passing on bad habits. What the incumbant nurse is actually doing is sharing how she survived thus far, not actually passing correct information...why?? Because it was never taught to her and it perpetuates the follies.

I don't care what they say, I strongly believe that the diploma nursing programs were the best. Strong clinicals, strong assessments, strong skills were given compared to what is being cranked out today.

josinda421 · Nov 11, 2008

Since graduating with my LPN, I've made it my sworn duty to make sure every student that passes my way has an awesome experience. So far I have gotten LPN students, ADN and BSN. Technically the RN students are supposed to be preceptored by RN's, but my unit is so small that when we have 2 nurses working, 2 patients, and 2 students, we split them up. I make it a point to have my student chart that day, in the actual chart, chart the assessment, read Dr's orders, note them, pass the meds, (few to pass on peds), check that iv site and flush it if int'd, or up and change the bag), do the assessment while I watch, do some parent education and chart those papers, and when we have some IM's they get to grab a thigh and give one. I'm always shocked how many say they've never gotten to write in a chart before. A lot say they just get to do vitals or cleaning up. I know my OB clinicals were like that. I've noticed a few of the nurses I work with are the same way as me, and some just let them follow around. I'm all about see one, do one. How can you learn if you don't touch??
But as to the subject, short orientation.. I took a second job in a LTAC , trachs, vents, etc, and they were going to give me 2 days of orientation. I walked. I've been talking to a lot of nurses, not new grads, they are getting their required 6 weeks and PBDS.. etc, but nurses who start new jobs in places, who get no orientation. That's just scary IMO.

I wish you could've oriented me. You sound like you would be a great teacher. Yea, in school during clinicals, my class also didn't get to write in the charts. We were only allowed to write on paper. I, till today STILL have trouble with charting. Don't know what to write or how to write it. I'm currently looking for a book about charting. Any advice?

truern · Nov 11, 2008

I wish you could've oriented me. You sound like you would be a great teacher. Yea, in school during clinicals, my class also didn't get to write in the charts. We were only allowed to write on paper. I, till today STILL have trouble with charting. Don't know what to write or how to write it. I'm currently looking for a book about charting. Any advice?

Find someone you work with that has great charting according to your particular facility's policy and emulate theirs. I found that much more helpful than the books I bought.

FlowerbuddRN2B · Nov 11, 2008

we did a lot of practicing in LPN school on narrative charting based on scenario patients, and when I started working, I would read back on what my preceptor had charted for the day and discuss with her before I charted what I was going to say. Doing that I was able to cut down to become concise but informative in my nurse's notes.

NursePeace · Nov 12, 2008

I thought the main message in your post was that you were sick of new grad nurses, from quickie schools with low standards, which is why i thought the phrase "nurses eat their young" was entirely appropriate, since you Are only 2 years out yourself (i wasnt counting your family's accomplishments), and you seem to have forgotten already how it is to be a recent grad. It seems to me that the phrase is entirely accurate, and unfortunately you seem to have caught an early onset case of it. (in my humble opinion) :) i think it is great though that despite this ailment, you can still give stellar orientations to all those eager grads. Hats off to you, Please, Please remember, everyone starts somewhere, & so did you! Warm Regards :)

Its not that Im sick of new nurses. Im sick of cruddy schools spitting out nurses who I dont think are ready. I think alot of people are misunderstanding the post. Im worried because nursing school standards (in my city at least) have dropped dramatically. The things I use to see or c/o in school, my mom would ALWAYS remind me of how they had it so much worse back in the day. I almost wish they would crack the whip again. Also I think we are misunderstanding each other on the nurse phrase. When I hear nurses eat their young, I see in my head at least, a nurse whos been in the game for some years and is just a complete a hole. Someone who goes outta their way to make a new nurse feel stupid for not knowing things they probably shouldnt yet. Not willing to teach. That is how I always saw it. And in that case, thats for sure not me. If anything I actually love orientating new grads. It reminds me of that excitement and eagerness I also had 2 years ago. Which has diminished some d/t nurses eating their young!! I just hope they crack down some, up orientation, something!!

truern · Nov 12, 2008

its not that im sick of new nurses. im sick of cruddy schools spitting out nurses who i dont think are ready.

i spent some time reading your previous posts. just wondering why somebody with your job history would assume that you should be the judge of whose ready to be a nurse?

jmho, of course.

lexaa777 · Nov 12, 2008

I was not trying to be offensive, nor did i take offense to your post. I went to a school with an unbeliveable reputation for putting out OVERqualified LPN's. I guess i just dont see how you are the best judge & jury for new grads since you said yourself you came from a sub-standard school and you are a recent grad yourself. I cant imagine what it would have been like to attend a program that did not have high standards, so i guess thats why i might be having trouble relating to you. But i can tell that your heart is in the right place, making sure that the patient is your top priority. That is what is really important, i think we can both agree on that! :)

NursePeace · Nov 13, 2008

I spent some time reading your previous posts. Just wondering why somebody with your job history would assume that YOU should be the judge of whose ready to be a nurse?
JMHO, of course.

WOW??!! Really?? I dont even know what to say to your incredibly RUDE reply. Im sorry, how would you know about my job history?? Im just asking because for a minute there I thought you knew me. BUTTTT you dont. For you to even let it cross your mind that you know my job history because of a couple of bad experiences Ive had, is just flat out ignorant. For you to reply to this post with such negativity when I made it clear I wasnt trying to judge or offend, tells me I clearly offended you. But thats just my humble opinion, of course.