Columbia University ETP 2011

[PacoUSA]

Thought it'd be a good idea to start a thread for prospective applicants to Columbia's ETP program starting Summer 2011. I was going to apply last year but passed on it in favor of working for another year.

Applications are due November 15, 2010! Right around the corner ...

Anyone else preparing for this also?

[A1551]

Was anyone else at the open house yesterday? Really surprised about some of the information we were presented with: financial aid/scholarship changes, no exposure or even encouragement to participate in faculty research.

I felt badly that the financial aid woman ended-up defending the program when a prospective student asked her some pointed questions, specifically, how does Columbia defend the price tag. She had two responses: 1, 91-95% of Columbia students who pay 100K for the BSN will pass the NCLEX on the first try whereas students who go to less expensive schools might have to take the test twice; 2, a Columbia nurse was the first to discover that using Purell between patients cut infection rates. I've had significant exposure to the health field and have done a lot of researching on programs so these two responses seemed weak.

Hi Hopkins -- Just curious as a current student what changes they made to the scholarships and/or financial aid. For us (current ETP) we all (well 95%+ of us) got 22,000 scholarship for undergrad and another 11,000 for masters portion.

As to research -- I believe they are moving the research courses entirely to the masters program. I'm in total agreement with that change after just experiencing the undergraduate one. We really had too much going on this semester to get value out of the research course, it was interesting to be exposed to it in a formal manner but given the massive amount of other material we're subjected to it just gets a very low priority from us as students. As to exposure, I'm surprised they'd say that -- I can't think of a single class in which we aren't exposed to research in some manner. We have guest speakers that present research in many classes. I cannot open my Columbia email account without having to wade through invitations to extracurricular research presentations and opportunities, either.

My guess is they're just referring to moving the research courses to the masters portions but I could be wrong, who knows what they're planning for the future. Did they give any more details? Now I'm curious!

-A1551

[hopkins76]

Hi Hopkins -- Just curious as a current student what changes they made to the scholarships and/or financial aid. For us (current ETP) we all (well 95%+ of us) got 22,000 scholarship for undergrad and another 11,000 for masters portion.

As to research -- I believe they are moving the research courses entirely to the masters program. I'm in total agreement with that change after just experiencing the undergraduate one. We really had too much going on this semester to get value out of the research course, it was interesting to be exposed to it in a formal manner but given the massive amount of other material we're subjected to it just gets a very low priority from us as students. As to exposure, I'm surprised they'd say that -- I can't think of a single class in which we aren't exposed to research in some manner. We have guest speakers that present research in many classes. I cannot open my Columbia email account without having to wade through invitations to extracurricular research presentations and opportunities, either.

My guess is they're just referring to moving the research courses to the masters portions but I could be wrong, who knows what they're planning for the future. Did they give any more details? Now I'm curious!

-A1551

Hi, A-

So, from a very dense financial aid .ppt, they are basically shifting the scholarship to "need based" as reflected by your expected family contribution. From my reading of older posts related to Columbia, it seems like they used to give almost everyone a 33K scholarship broken into 2/3 for the first year and then 1/3 the second year. For at least 2011, the scholarship is at most 20-23K the first year for those with the lowest or no expected family contribution and you re-apply for the second year. Again, this is only for the Columbia scholarship and obviously other sources of funding are available (generally loans but also other grants and scholarships). For those of us who are working, our income increases the expected family contribution so we'll see less of this scholarship money the first year--no matter that our income stops after enrollment. Obviously, since you can't work that first year, your second year you will probably have a "zero" expected family contribution so you'll get closer to the full scholarship amount. So, some will fare better with these changes and others worse. It totally depends on your situation and, as the PD said, you end-up with a mortgage but no house :)

As to exposure to research, the prospective student had asked if students were able to participate in faculty research. With a 12-month program there clearly isn't time, but the PD said they don't encourage research at even the master's level--"its more of a doctoral thing". For me, the ability to participate in research is important, but I understand it might not be for others, so, again, it totally depends on your situation.

There were other aspects of the program the PD said were changing but weren't made public yet. Not sure what these changes are, if they are big or small, or when they will be announced, so will just wait to hear!

[A1551]

Thanks hopkins -- certainly sounds like a change for the worse in terms of the financial aid package although I suppose it depends on how generous they are with what they give based on your EFC.

[cu1234]

Hopkins,

That is interesting about the financial aid changes. That said, our scholarships were called need based last year. From my understanding they looked at our EFC before awarding them. I had worked 6 years prior to coming and was eligible. Most received some sort of scholarship although I do know students were dependents of parents that did not receive the scholarship. The thing to remember though is Columbia is one of the only schools that I know of/applied to that gave such a generous scholarship. It helped make the $100k over 2 years a bit more manageable.

I know you were bummed about the research opportunities but like A1551 said, there are many opportunities to be around and engaged in research at Columbia. I know a couple of students who actually did work, during this year, in research positions. They were not faculty research but they were Columbia research opportunities they sought out given we are on such a prestigious medical campus/research center. I think someone was in cancer research and the other psych. There are also opportunities to TA once you move through your first year or precept at the Columbia Student Medical Outreach clinic (a free clinic for the under/uninsured of Washington Heights).

This leads to the price tag and what you get. Yes, I agree, it's crazy expensive. But, private institutions are in general. Yale and the other private schools, with comparable programs, were the same price. The public universities were less money. At all of them, I imagine, you'll get a great experience at. What you end up paying for with Columbia, or a private school, is name recognition as well as resources. I, and A1551, mentioned above we are on a pretty research focused campus. Just the other day we had someone from the WHO in to speak about the general state of world health and the work they are doing. There are tons of opportunities like this to be exposed to some of the best and the brightest in health care. We also have really bright faculty and good clinical experiences. Furthermore, I would say a lot of the faculty are activists/advocates for the undeserved. There are faculty projects like girls2women (google it if you want more info) where our instructor is fighting to keep African women in school when they have their period. She is doing this through creating resuable cotton pads so girls don't miss any school. Students are involved in this effort as well as a medical aid trip to Haiti. I know there are many more opportunities for learning and service that I have not touched upon.

All in all I'm sorry to hear the information day wasn't all that helpful or informative to you. I wish they would have shown you more about what Columbia has to offer. There really are tons of neat opportunities here.

[cu1234]

Hopkins,

Also, I just saw your previous post (on another page), about clinicals... In your 1st year you will not be placed in a clinical site outside of Manhattan. I don't know why they told you this. All of our sites are in Manhattan (albeit one is the allen pavillion so it's very north in Manhattan). All sites are accessible by public transport or a free shuttle that leaves from school.

Maybe they were referring to our integration which is the 10 week 1x1 instruction period at the end of the BSN portion? This is when you work the same schedule, side by side, with a nurse. During integration you can be places anywhere but you won't be placed outside of Manhattan unless you ask to be.

Also, BSN is 12 months (there is no part time). It's one of the fastest that I know if. The summer is challenging and our director's statement was pretty true. You don't have much time for a life. After the summer it gets better. You are still pretty busy but you have time to do other things than go to school and study. People get married, have babies and life goes on. I think all accelerated nursing programs try to tell you to suspend life. It's not realistic and does not happen.

Faculty diversity...I'd say that's always an issue with nursing school. Taking issue with where they went to undergrad? I'm not sure that's necessarily an indication someone is a strong teacher or that they are dolts. Our professors have many years of solid clinical expertise. That said, my specialty director (midwifery) went to Yale, our favorite (or maybe just my favorite) ETP professor has a phd from OHSU. Also, our new dean was an endowed chair at U.Washington. In case anyone was worrying that professors didn't go to top schools.

Hope this helps!

[LookingAhead]

For what it's worth: I have always found that the staff involved in admissions/info sessions are the worst representatives of what a school is about (why is that?!) and don't necessarily give you a picture of what it will be like to attend the school in any way. I've gone to a few of these sessions and unless they involve faculty members, current students and a campus tour, they might as well have just sent you the powerpoint presentations and had you email your questions.

The financial aid changes are ones to be questioned seriously, but in terms of the other stuff (faculty quality, research opportunities, etc.) - I say just get in touch with current students and faculty whose research you're interested in supporting. The current students on this thread have already been really helpful!!

[Mission]

I wrote a longer post earlier but it got deleted. I'm a current PhD student who was ETP/MSN. I found these threads really helpful when I was applying so I just like to give back. Anyway, just want to speak to the research thing. There really is no time to do research in the pre-licensure phase. You can do research in the masters portion but you need to initiate contact with the faculty your interested in working with. Though the nursing school (unlike the rest of the campus) is not research intensive, though hopefully this is changing with the new dean, there are some really top notch researchers at the school who would be great to work with. Also, research positions = free tuition, can't beat that.

[LovelyLici]

Hello, I decided to apply for ETP 2011, instead of wait another year, I have attended several of the sessions and found them to be enlightening. I have changed my essay several times over the past 2 months, I was wondering if anyone had any problems with the 2 page limit. I have so much to say, so are there any ways around this. I have increased the rulers (side boarders) but I think this may be a problem. Anyone experience the same issues?

[tamara152, BSN, RN]

No judgement please but I am such a bonehead. I took the statement put all transcripts in one envelope LITERALLY. I opened them all and put them in one envelope. I was reading a different application that says don't open them. I reordered them but they wont make it before monday..have I messed up for the 2011 etp program or can transcripts be sent after the deadline? I feel like such an idiot

[LookingAhead]

tamara152 - Put yourself out of your misery! Call Columbia and ask.

:)

[cartwheel]

Tamara! Oh no! Just call them. Let them know new ones are on the way.

[yogaseli]

Hi Cu2140 and A115,

Thanks so much for both of your posts. It has been really helpful to read your responses. I was hoping that one or both of you could address the issue that has been raised again and again (in these postings) about the disorganization of the program. Do you guys feel like the etp program has responded and implementing changes to prior year concerns/issues? Is there a formal feedback system for such issues? Also, given that some years there are big classes (180-200), do you guys feel that there are good mentor or support networks in place? I really want to feel like I am in a place where people are rooting for me, and where there are PLENTY of support services available if and when I begin to feel overwhelmed.

Regarding the faculty -- I sent emails to faculty members from several schools that I am interested in, and only received one response from a Columbia faculty member. I asked her if she would be willing to share what her experience was like working as an NP within a hospital setting. All her response said was, "no"... ha. After this email exchange, I am left wondering, what are faculty student relationships like? Are faculty interested in getting to know/ work with their students? Specifically, does the faculty go out of their way to get to know you and understand what your interest are? Or are they serving a purely instructional, non-interactive role?

Thanks for your time and candid feedback :)