why are cna's treated like they are stupid and replaceable?

punnit_square · Apr 11, 2005

Maybe you need to work somewhere else? We're both in Florida. You can look up the Nurse Practice Act on the BON website. The differences between the RN and the LPN are spelled out pretty clearly there.
At my facility, I have to do the LPN's admission assessments. Our LPNs can give IVP narcs and do central line draws only if they have passed an IV Cert class. Unlike the RN, the LPN cannot work independently and must work under the direction of an RN.
There's a bigger difference between my salary and the LPN's than there is between my salary and the BSN's. I make about $5/hour more than the LPN, but only about $1/hr less than the BSN.
PS We greatly value our PCTs. I think they're the best! We encourage them to further their nursing career with a nice tuition reimbursement program. Many places don't value their CNAs, but I've known many dedicated CNAs who've saved patients' lives. I wish they'd get paid a living wage for all they do.

I plan to work somewhere else . . . I plan to go back to NC where I will be paid my worth. It is definitely the area in which I work . . . seems like no recognition for the NPA.

punnit_square · Apr 11, 2005

i have tried. every day that i go to work.
first off, we need to stop generalizing. :smiley_ab i am so fed up with the support staff where i work. they barely do their vital signs, let alone personal care. i work in peds, where the majority of personal care is done by the parent. but there are cases where there is no parent there. we have a kid who has been in and out of the hospital for the last 6 months (was in for 90% of that time). they don't touch this kid, and it's not like they're waiting for the parent to come (we know it's not happening)!! one aide actually changes her diaper (i will give her credit). but how can someone walk into a room, do vitals, and walk out without checking her diaper? and don't say "the nurse can do it too", because that's who ends up doing it (if we don't it doesn't get done- i wish i was exaggerating). and these are the same aides who trip over urinals on their way out of the room. so who does it, we do!! i've said it before, and i'll say it again, we can do everything they do, but who is left to do our work???? and we don't have a leg to stand on, b/c as soon as a nurse complains, they come in with a union rep (the nurses are not unionized). eyes and ears, my tush!!!
i know this thread was originally speaking about ltc. i also sup in a (peds) ltc. i can proudly say the exact opposite is true here. here, they do so much for these kids, and staffing is really good (usually). they do everything for these kids- head to toe (and everything in between). and i've told them how much i (even though i'm just a sup) value what they do here. the aides in the hosp do a quarter of what they do in ltc, and complain twice as much. but it will never change, because it's gone on for too far. and they think they have no responsibilty to their pts. that what gets me the most :angryfire okay, you're not a nurse, but you are providing patient care (or barely)...

union rep cannot stop an investigation for patient neglect.

punnit_square · Apr 11, 2005

Hmm! Wow! I am not even at South Beach and I can feel the Heat :angryfire . When you have a problem, the professional thing to do is to find a solution to the problem. Now, you can write as good as shakespear, or some famous writer, but that will not be enough. LPN's Can dodge their flaming bottles at CNA's, then the CNA's can just swallow it and explode, or they can try to indicate the roots of the problem. Right now, all of you are biased in one way or another. You're solution will be to have more CNA's, and if the facility keeps saying "there are no applications." Well, you can confirm this by asking a qualifying candidate to apply for the position and see whether they get hired or not. There are many more ways I can tell you right now that are logical approaches that will get this argument standing up on it's own legs. However, until then you should think about solutions rather than fussing and fighting with each other. This problem is way above your decisions, the masters of the masters (corporate owners) make these decisions. So what you need is mandated laws to be passed and the laws should state the facilities that cannot meet this requirement will be shut down. If we want what is safe for the residents and the staff, then we must act like FDR and not use Herber Hoover's Hand's Approach. We have to manipulate and tweek the system until we reach the maximum. Do something. Like interview a resident whom before he/she was admitted what was shown and promised to him/her and etc and what they're receiving now.
Maxs

There are laws in regards to patient:aide ratio. It has to do with hours, aides on the unit, and the facility census. Employers get around this by at the end of the month, overstaff for two to three days for two shifts. When they break it down, it looks like on paper there has been adequate staffing through out the entire month. Smart little SOBs aren't they. What is not fair, whether the shortage is Licensed or unlicensed, everyone feels the pressure, everyone is on edge, and the residents ultimately suffer.

simao pt · Apr 11, 2005

Just because a person is hierarchly inferior it does not mean that they are inferior in any way.

We don't like it when the docs act all superior on us, do we? Why should we act the same on others? :stone

KrisRNwannabe · Apr 11, 2005

because Purple, unfortunetly some bad CNAs have given everyone a bad name. remember one bad apple ruins the whole bunch!!!

ham22 · Apr 11, 2005

There are laws in regards to patient:aide ratio. It has to do with hours, aides on the unit, and the facility census. Employers get around this by at the end of the month, overstaff for two to three days for two shifts. When they break it down, it looks like on paper there has been adequate staffing through out the entire month. Smart little SOBs aren't they. What is not fair, whether the shortage is Licensed or unlicensed, everyone feels the pressure, everyone is on edge, and the residents ultimately suffer.

Wow! You must have worked at my old facility! That always made me sick how they could get away with that crap. :angryfire

Sometimes there were only 2 CNA's to 75 residents at my old job! Isn't that awful! I tried to help when I could but as I was usually the only nurse there I was very busy as well. So glad I'm away from there.

To OP- it is sad to say but I think there's a little of this everywhere you go. I see your point of view because I started at the bottom in Houskeeping and laundry , worked my way up to CNA and am now an LPN. But LPN's and RN's get treated badly in some places as well. What's the old saying? S**t always rolls downhill! :uhoh3: It sounds like this nurse may just be a little lazy if she wouldn't even help you stand someone and she was right there. Hang in there and know that you will have the same education that she has someday and then see how her attitude changes. Good Luck!

analiezel · Apr 11, 2005

I WAS A PCT/ CA before becoming an RN and i hated the nurses that were like that. I vowed to myself that i would never treat anyone like that and be as professional as possible and think that we are here to work as a team. Sounds like this nurse is burnt out, not that i am defending her but just like everyone, people get tired of their jobs and need to be reminded of their duties too, maybe you should take some time and sit and talk to her, tell her how you feel.

But you are all ( PCTs/CA/LPNs/CNA) valued, you are the backbone of nursing without you, nursing would not be possible.

it seems to me that CNA's, esp. in long term care, get treated as if they don't know how to do anything, are overworked, unappreciated, and underpaid. This one nurse about drives me up the wall. You come to her with a patient related concern and she'll look at me like I'm busy you take care of it. No I cannot hang another feeding, do a dressing change, or insert a catheter though I've been taught how. ( previous nurses training). She walks like a waddling duck. A lady accidently slipped and I was taking her to the toilet. It was an accident and I wish I fell, I felt that bad. My partner was busy at the moment and this nurse was RIGHT there! I asked her if she would mind helping me stand this lady up, she goes oh I thought so, so was going to help you!!! This is the type of nurse that would actually make a mess in the process of giving a pt their meds and say gosh that's the aides job to clean it up. I never ever expect the nurse to do my job for me but if they are in the same room and can't even help their own patients, there is something wrong with that. She doesn't like lifting either, I wonder how she passed her physical for nursing school. No other aide in sight, asked her one day to help transfer someone( would have either injured myself badly or dropped him) nurse sitting on her butt and " oh I guess so" with a sigh! The nurses are suppose to help!!! maybe as a cna I am biased and only see one side of it. Other nurses assist at times but she thinks she is too good to do anything else, but now I'm in nursing school and once I get out I hope I don't ever treat my help this way. Maybe I'm expecting to be treated with respect because I work very hard to care for my patients in skilled care, but we are always short staffed, and the fact that I have a college degree in nursing/ general studies, while I'm not a nurse in the eyes of the law I am a caregiver that continually nurtures each and every one of my patients, in a way when a patient hollers for the nurse they don't decipher between me and the LPN or RN. we are all nurses to them providing patient care.

studious · Apr 12, 2005

OP: first of all, I am an LPN in a LTC facility. Trust me, I do not sit on my 'butt". I rarely get 15 minutes to eat supper and I have to stay late. The CNA's in my facility always get breaks and always leave on time, and they always get help from the "nurses". If your patient is a fall risk, are you getting help from another CNA before you toilet her or use a lift? Just because you aproach us when we are passing the endless meds, taking physician orders, dealing with relatives, doing a procedure, etc, etc, and tell us Mrs. So-and-So" needs a band-aid on her toe does not mean we are going to lock up our med cart and jump right to it. And if resident falls, who license is on the line? Not yours!

I'm not sure what kind of RN you are, but if one of my much respected and appreciated care assistants come up to me to say Mrs. so and so needs a band aid for his/her toe. Too right I will be locking up my trolley to go and look and give a bad-aid if necessary, and documenting and referring to a podiatrist if needbe. The drug round will still be there when your done. Does infection ring a bell. Please when you write a comment do not use the word we, because at the end of the day we are all acountable for our own actions and/or OMISSIONS. All RN's have Dr.s rounds, patients to attend to, drug rounds blah blah blah. PULEEEEEEASE :angryfire

boulergirl, CNA · Apr 12, 2005

Why are CNA's treated as stupid and replaceable? Well, because nurses are too. As our assistants, why expect anything else?

Well, maybe I need to find work in another field...one where, someday, I actually get some RESPECT. Sheesh. :madface:

LPN1974, LPN · Apr 12, 2005

I am an LPN, I work in MR/DDS, when we have just 2 nurses, {we should be scheduled with 3, but due to illness, holidays, etc, sometimes we have to work with 2} we set up meds for about 60 people each.

Now if you can visualise this setting....the nurses are in one building and the people served in 8 separate buildings, supervisied/cared for by our LSTs {Life Skilled Trainers}. Some of the LSTs will call you for just absolutely ANY little small minor thing they can drum up.

I have been called out for MINOR bruises, HANGNAILS on fingers, SMALL rashes, etc.

It got so bad that we had to talk to our DON about it. Something had to be done.

We couldn't set up all these meds and be called out for such minor things.

We had to start asking the LSTs, "Is this person Breathing?" "Yes."

"Is this person bleeding?" "No." "Is this person able to get up and walk?" "yes."

"Well, then it isn't that big of an emergency, and the problem will be looked in to when the nurse comes in for med rounds."

Then they start to insist, "Well, I need you to come look at it now, so I can get my paperwork done."

"We have 2 nurses working today and we are trying to get the meds poured up to make rounds. When the nurse comes in she/he will check into the problem. If the person is breathing, in no distress, and not bleeding, then it can wait 45-60 minutes until the first med pass."

These LSTs are trained in First Aid and CPR so the nurses are NOT abandoning anyone.

We just have to say sometimes, that minor bruises, hangnails, etc. are not a priority.

If we determine over the telephone that it is an emergency we will be out that door in a flash.

AND, the LSTs also have their own supervisors, so someone besides a nurse CAN go look at it, until the nurse gets there.

But get real......give me a break! SOME things are not emergencies!

I have NEVER, and I've been there 25 years, made a bad descision yet, over the telephone. In fact, I have gone anyway and checked on some things even tho, it COULD have waited.

jeepgirl, LPN, NP · Apr 12, 2005

maybe I fail to see that the nurses are busy even when it looks like they're not. I was taught to take care of all I can for the patient without bugging the nurse, unless of course it is urgent or I'm not permitted to perform that nursing skill. On good days we have 15-16 a piece, bless those empty beds and residents in the hospital by the way, and if not you can have the whole hall to yourself. This has happened to me more than once and I said to the DON fine but you had better make sure the nurses help us with dinner and help me lift or provide more freakin' staff. and as for medicine I'm not talking about them spitting up after the nurse leaves but just being clumsy when giving it to them and not offering to clean up the mess. and true each lpn has 32 residents and I imagine that can get just as hectic. midnights are the only ones that have it good, they have four aides, 16 a piece and they work as a team 2 to a hall. there is no reason to bug the nurse if you can handle it yourself or have a partner but what to do when you don't? some of these nurses though seem to think that they are way up there and we are way down there. but i'm told it is like this alot of places and doesn't necessarily get better just because you move up the ladder. i want to be a nurse but this is aweful. one lpn at our place regularly works at least 5-6 days a week and 4 or 5 sometimes are double shifts! we don't have enough of anything. one laundry girl for the whole place holds about 100 residents, i often don't get a break, am called at home frequently,and i wonder why so many nursing professionals get burnt out. !! i'm in lpn school now, looking for another job, or maybe just volunteer in a hospital.

The paperwork in nursing has gotten to be horrible. Dealing with meds, fussing on the phone with lab, pharmacy, SPD, etc... it takes a lot of time.

I have finally gotten to the point where I have to look at my teammember and say "can you do _______ for me, because I have to get (insert RN task here) done." It's not being hateful. It's just that I have to get my RN stuff done, so I'm going to have to stop helping with the CNA / UC stuff for a little bit.

But yes, they should be willing to help most times. If not, I would almost go as far as to say you probably need to talk to your DON.

Plagueis · Apr 19, 2005

Again....Zowie!!! 6-7$/hour??? We start our aides off at 10.50 day shift with more for off shifts, weekends, and experience. We have a few CNA's who have been there so long they are making almost as much as an LPN.

You're lucky you have a shift differential. Around here, the pay is the same, even if us CNAs work weekends or overnight shifts. And the management wonders why they have problems finding aides for those shifts! Also, I'm tired of hearing about how some nursing homes claim they can't afford to pay aides more than $9 per hour, when they pay agency aides $17-$20 per hour. Why can't we earn that much? We work just as hard as the agency aides. $9 per hour, even though it's above minimum wage, is not enough to live on.