CNA's passing meds

Teshiee · Sep 5, 2002

Again, a bandaid to put on an oozing wound. Using the nursing shortage as an excuse is lame. It goes to show in every area of nursing there are issues that need to be address. Hiring unlicensed individuals to pass meds and making licensed nurses be held responsible is crazy. Why should a LVN/RN go behind anyone when they can pass them med themselves. Redundancy is the mother of all fcuk ups!!!!!!!

When the powers that be face the nursing shortage issue head on without sugar coating then maybe just maybe things wouldn't get so bad.

Momma_Penguin · Sep 5, 2002

I live in Pa and at the facility I work at now, the CNA'S are permitted to pass the meds to the personal care residents. A lot of personal care facilities do this. I have never been happy with that d/t the fact that altho some of them may have been giving meds to loved ones at home/ taking care of family... that does not qualify you to pass meds. There are sooo many things to be alert for that even licensed nurses may miss. I just am not comfortable with them doing that. What's worse is who do they calll when they are in trouble... or a resident doesn't look or act right... you know it... the nurses. I am not down on CNA'S... I used to be one, but I feel a problem/ accident will happen if the state permits this to continue. I hardly ever give a lot of prn meds... just 1 look at their medex's, some nurses's aides are "prn med queens" I would feel alot better if a nurse was assigned to do the med pass or....send the CNA'S to class. But that's just my 2 cents worth. Laura LPN

Michelle_nurse · Sep 5, 2002

Where I work, only RN's pass meds. I wouldn't be surprised if this wrongful med passing was taking place in small LTC facilities. I worked very hard to have my education and licence, no one should be able to replace part of my job. Passing meds is part of being a nurse. A nurse is a nurse, aides are not nurses!

I know many excellent nurses aides, but they don't know what we are thinking or assessing when we walk in a pt's room. I was an aide where I now work as an RN, so I know how aides think.

They are not qualified for the responsilibity, and if they want the responsibility, they should go on their own licence.

Looking in med book doesn't cut it either.

If you want to be a nurse, go to school to be a nurse.

Brownms46 · Sep 5, 2002

Originally posted by Flo1216
I often wonder why, if tasks that were once the responsibility of RNS continue to be delegated to PCAS, LPNS, etc , do we even need RNS at all? To do all the mounds of paperwork? I always hear LPNS and others indignantly say things such as, " Well, I do the same things the RN does...I just get paid less," hmmmm.....

I'm sorry but I had to :chuckle at this one..:)! I currently do less than the RN traveler working with me...but I get paid more..!

I'm sorry...but I just couldn't resist! :cool:

fadingyouth · Sep 5, 2002

I have to agree, Brownie.

Although I presently do almost as much as the Rn, I probably have less difficulty doing it for I make more!

Isn't life funny?:chuckle

LIZZIE57 · Sep 5, 2002

I WORK IN RHODE ISLAND WHERE THE MAJORITY OF LTC'S USE MED TECHS TO PASS MEDS. THE POSITION REQUIRES A 3 MONTH COURSE FOR WHICH THE PERSON BECOMES QUALIFIED TO TAKE AN EXAM AND DO THE "MED THING"! DO i LIKE IT???? NO, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF NURSES, STRESSED TO THE MAX WHO ARE ALWAYS GLAD TO SEE THE TECH ARRIVE. NURSES STILL DO NARCS, GT'S, ETC. I DO NOT KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT THE COURSE. MASSACHUSETTS, DOES NOT ALLOW TECHS.

Teshiee · Sep 5, 2002

Wow! That makes me feel safe they can pass meds except narcotics.

purdue91 · Sep 5, 2002

What's even scarier is: some of these QMA's are smarter than some RN's and LPN's. Have more common sense!!!!!

azgirl · Sep 5, 2002

In the facility I work the CMT's not only pass meds but do all patient care and laundry. How much time do you think they have to think about the meds. It's a nuisance to them as they have other things to do but sure helps on the payroll.

mboyce · Sep 5, 2002

I don't think that proponents of CMAs are using the nurse shortage as an excuse to justify the use of CMAs. The nurse shortage is a reality that forces us to deal with unmet patient and resident needs by looking for alternative solutions. To ignore reality is to weaken the profession by allowing others to create alternative solutions that are then forced on nursing.

To suggest that nurses should re-engage in supporting the profession is a good idea but it ain't working; look at the membership numbers for your state associations. In the mean time, while nurses pass pills patients wait for care.

That CMAs cannot do assessments is a fundamental arguing point for CMAs; CMAs free nurses to do the assessments that are not now being done. Look at the entries from the nurses who work with them.

The role of the nurse needs to both evolve and expand. With the support of CMAs, nurses are free to focus on assessment of response to medications not just wait for emergence of adverse reactons or symptoms of medication ineffectiveness. High risk patients and issues can be scheduled for attention instead of "fit in" and while medication rounds are a good time for viewing patient status they are not a good time for patient intervention.

In Long Term Care, the resident population is relatively stable . . . and so are their medications. In our facility (census 135-140) we administer over 1000 individual doses of medications each day within very limited time frames. The CMS threshold of concern for residents is 9 or more medications, our average is 5-6. While there are PRNs and these involve assessment we do not anticipate that CMAs will either conduct the assessment or administer the PRN. What could the nurse be doing that they cannot now do because they are passing medications?

Assessments.

It may be that CMAs are not for every setting and perhaps those differences generate some of the heat in these discussions; we should be careful to stay on issue and the issue is really very simple. Nursing either responds to environmental forces . . . no matter how turbulent the currents . . . by deciding what nursing is and is not or nursing ceases to be.

NurseAngie · Sep 5, 2002

Originally posted by sunnygirl272
NurseAngie-
what's a Medicaid nurse aid?

Hi Sunny Girl,

Hi Don't really know, but you best believe I intend to find out. I know that the community college I attend requires that all nursing students complete and pass this course prior to the first semester of schooling. I didn't have to go through it since I am a LPN. I am NOT belittling them or anyone else....I guess I was just unnerved in HOW she said what she did. :rolleyes:

~Angie

ADONDonnaRN · Sep 5, 2002

Perhaps some of us accept CMAs as easily as we do, because we have worked with them and around them for such a long time. I can remember, years and years ago, as a GVN, the facility where I got my first job used a med-aide, and every place I've worked since then has used at least one.

In all honesty, I have, over the years seen a fewer number of nurses, passing a fewer number of meds, be responsible for a larger percentage of med errors than any of the med aides.

Perhaps this is because the CMAs have to pass meds. Period. Their attention isn't divided between multiple numbers of tasks.

Whatever resolution is brought about in the end, something has got to be done universally, to relieve some of the care issues that have come about due to the shortage that we have faced, and will continue to face.

Mboyce is right. We need to come up with a viable solution, or someone else will.