CNA trouble.. again!?

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Specializes in geriatrics.

So, I made a thread a week or so ago about getting CNAs to do their job. Well, tonight has really made me mad.

A little background info for those who don't know... I'm 21.. a nurse of only 3 months now, and working as an LPN at the same LTC for 2 months now that I worked at for 2 years as a CNA. I've worked along side most of the CNAs there, and I've had trouble getting the CNAs to do what they're supposed to (i.e. vitals at the right time..etc).. but after some advice It was getting better... then comes tonight.

My shift is from 2 - 10. I was working tonight with an RN who had been an LPN at this facility for a few years and now is a new RN of maybe a year. He receives a phone call that is a CNA call off for midnight shift. This is at 6pm. We are allready short staffed.. with 5 CNAs and making the best of it.. yet we know that one of them has got to stay to cover for the next shift. 3 of the CNAs are still in HS and have school, so they can not stay.. the DON stated this.. which I understand. The 2 left that are the only 2 that can stay are noticeably unhappy about this, but I figure they would discuss it amongst themselves. It's 9:25 pm (an hour before my shift ends) and one of the 2 eligible CNAs asks me if I want to go smoke with her. She goes out to her car to get her cigarettes, while I tell the RN working with me that I am gonna step outside. This particular CNA comes back and says "There is a lady here allready from night shift that agrees to clock in 30 minutes early because I need to go.. something about her kids". I say "Noone can leave until I know for a fact that someone is staying. I dont care who stays, but someone has to".. so she states "I can tell you right now that I can't stay". Well, that put me aback a bit so she says "Can I leave?"... I was soo tired and stressed because the nurse before me left me half of her workload for this shift, I just simply state "I don't know".. because I seriously didn't know what to do. I never thought someone would look me in my face and tell me that they're not going to do something. So, I step outside to smoke.. thinking she was following me as planned.. I come back in and realize she is gone and the CNA from midnights had clocked in for her. I am pissed at this point and the poor CNA left over is automatically the one to stay. Regardless, this girl (the one who left) knew what she was doing and knew that if she could leave she would get out of staying early. I feel she took advantage of my new role and lack of courage, I guess. The RN was there by the computer putting vitals in, he never did chime in.. but I hope he heard it because later another RN came in and I told her about it and she mentioned that she was gonna mention abandonment for this CNA that left to the higher ups. I'm so mad right now. I dont know if she took "I don't know" as "I don't care" or if she just blatantly ignored me, but either way she is in trouble and I have a feeling this particular CNA will tell them I said yes.. as i NEVER said yes.. but i didnt say no.. I was shocked and paniced and not sure what to do.. I did however say that noone could leave and she rudely stated "Well, I'll tell you right now I can't stay". So, I let her intimidate me.. and now I will probably have to pay, as she is sooo vindictive and will tell everyone that I lied and did tell her she could leave. UGH... why cant people just accept that they are in the Healthcare field, and if someone has to stay then someone has to stay.. instead of making it so hard on me and others that have to be the bullies and make them do something they KNOW they are bound to have to do.. as do nurses. GRRRRRR. My vent.. any advice or similar experiences?

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Specializes in ICU, CCU, Trauma, neuro, Geriatrics.

You need to write what happened, date it and sign it. Keep one copy for yourself, give a copy to your manager and one to the DON. Make sure the manager knows the DON is getting a copy also.

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Specializes in Operating Room Nursing.

Ivliss2ebecca i'm not really sure that there is a lot you can do here. I don't know how things are done in the US but you cannot force someone to work overtime in Oz. You are expected to work a 'reasonable amount of overtime'. But if you have children, appointments, are feeling fatigued etc that prevent you from staying back then you don't have to. They have to hire agency staff or at least approach you with reasonable notice and ASK. It's not really fair to expect someone to do a double shift without reasonable notice.

From what i read in your post you might have handled it better than simply dictating to them that they aren't leaving etc. I would not be happy with someone telling me that i had to stay on or else. You have to acknowledge that maybe this person really couldn't stay back and work late. Yes we are healthcare workers but we have lives outside of work. I think she should have told you she was leaving but i don't think she should feel obliged to stay on. You mentioned she had children. Perhaps she felt that you were trying to bully her into staying late. IMHO saying 'no one can leave' is a form of intimidation and bullying.

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Sounds like another ****** LTC job... My last job was exactly like this! I was always overworked and fighting with the CNAs about helping each other and doing their jobs. I wish I could tell you that it gets better...but it rarely ever does. I don't mince words. Leave this job and do better things for yourself. This is a waste of your precious time!

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Specializes in ICU, CCU,Wound Care,LTC, Hospice, MDS.
Ivliss2ebecca i'm not really sure that there is a lot you can do here. I don't know how things are done in the US but you cannot force someone to work overtime in Oz.

I have worked in four LTC's in two different states and have to agree with Scrubby.

You can request someone stay over, but it cannot be required.

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Specializes in Pediatrics.
3 of the CNAs are still in HS and have school, so they can not stay.. the DON stated this.. which I understand. The 2 left that are the only 2 that can stay are noticeably unhappy about this, but I figure they would discuss it amongst themselves. ?

Did you approach the CNA's and ask them about staying over? Was a resonable attempt made to call someone in? Was agency called? I dont think that the CNA acted agaisnt you personally, it was the facility. To the facility the CNA in high school have a priority over a CNA who has children. No likes to hear, you have to stay or else. The remaining 2 CNA's most likley did discuss it among themselves and most likley didn't come to an agreement. I understand it is healthcare, but my children would always come first and I wouln't be able to work if I lost my babysitter because the babysitter was also then forced to work a double.

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Specializes in LTC.

I used to work a facility that had mandatory overtime. Sadly they kept pointing out that it was perfectly legal and they would put names in a hat if no one volunteered to stay. As a CNA who’s been in this situation these CNAs don’t have a problem with you, they have a problem with the facility and the system.

As a CNA in this situation I would frequently say, “No, I can’t work a double.” I had no problem staying half a shift if they could promise me that I would have a relief and if I didn’t have school in the morning, but I personally can’t work doubles. After a full night of work and probably a full day before that a full shift would leave me awake for 24 hours, hungry, cranky, and unsafe. We all know how our brains and bodies get when we are tired. While CNAs aren’t using their brains in the biggest way, they are still moving and they still have to keep an eye on the residents for abnormals to inform the nurse about. I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m exhausted I move slow and I don’t notice everything I should. I would hate to be ambulating someone to the bathroom, have them get unsteady, and then not be able to catch them because my reaction time was too slow.

My honest thought was that as a CNA with experience I could go out anywhere and find a job! If the facility I worked for had such a huge problem getting and keeping CNAs someone else must be having the same problems and want to hire me. Now I guess the question is why did I stay at a job with mandatory overtime for so long? Because I loved the residents and the work that I did.

There needs to be a better system in place at this facility with on-call staff, agency, and calling around to get people to cover shifts. Working short is unpleasant, but if you keep it up, you’ll only lose more CNAs.

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Specializes in Hospice, Med/Surg, ICU, ER.

Sorry, but CNA's are UAP's (unlicensed assistive personnel); they have NO requirements about reporting and/or abandonment.

You might be able to fire them, or maybe not depending on the rules in your state, for not staying for the unscheduled time - but you can forget any State action on this person for leaving.

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Specializes in LTC.

Did the aid leave before her regular shift was over? Or did she leave between shifts or at the beginning of the night shift? We had an aid who left before her shift was over because she was on light duty :uhoh3: I didn't have anything to do. She was wrote up and was probation for a month. May trulyy depend on when she left, not that she didn't stay.

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Casi, the facility you worked at may have said that they had mandatory overtime but with the labor laws out there they can not force you to work over your 40 hrs a week. If a facilty needs someone that bad and no CNA can stay maybe a nurse should stay. I am not a nurse yet but think that it is the nurses responsibility to make sure that there is coverage. I have work at many LTC facilities and have seen nurses work as CNA's when there was noone else.

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Specializes in LTC, home health, private care.

Actually, I had a similar experience the other night. One of my CNA's was staying late from 6-2. She was supposed to be relieved at 4 pm, but the 4pm CNA never showed up. She was a no call, no show. So I had to tell this girl that since her replacement didn't show up, she couldn't leave. The earliest I could get her out was 8 pm. She was on a very easy, low census skilled hall with about 6 residents. She totally refused to get any of them up for supper, and just sat next to the phone trying to get someone to come in for her. Right about that time I had a resident go into decline, so the staffing issue rapidly lost priority. i wound up having to send room trays down to about 3 of those residents who weren't able to come up because she was throwing her hissy fit.

I have to go in for my eval today, and I'll talk to the DON about it then. I have been an LPN for only a few months now, but I was a CNA for 7 years. I would have never dreamed of treating a nurse the way I get treated there sometimes.

:angryfire

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Specializes in ER/ medical telemetry.

Hello,

I myself a CNA/Tech for 17 yrs. was asked maybe just a few times to stay over, but if I did not was never held accountable, if I refused.

The awful thing about it was if nobody would stay then, the nurses had to pick up the slack of vitals, I&O, answering lights, and patient care+ his/her nursing duties.

The good thing was it was never the whole day or night, it was partial shifts.

CNA were valued because we sometimes had to split one between two halls or sometimes 3.

One more nurse added to the shift would pick up the duties of the CNA/Tech, or one more nurse added to the team would lighten the load for the other nurses to do their own CNA work with less patients.

WOW!

My opinion:

Nobody can hold an aide accountable for abandonment, unless they just plain walk off shift without telling anyone; but not for not accepting extra hours.

I'm not totally positive how other states or facilities work, but that is how I have seen it in FL hospitals.

Long term care or ALF's I do not have a clue,or other hospitals in other states, just my opinion... ;)

Casi, the facility you worked at may have said that they had mandatory overtime but with the labor laws out there they can not force you to work over your 40 hrs a week. If a facilty needs someone that bad and no CNA can stay maybe a nurse should stay. I am not a nurse yet but think that it is the nurses responsibility to make sure that there is coverage. I have work at many LTC facilities and have seen nurses work as CNA's when there was noone else.
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