Clinically Inexperienced Manager

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Mar 18, 2023

Overall, bad idea. If you have no clue about the area, you can't appropriately manage, plan for staffing or supplies, etc. Someone, staff or patient, could be seriously injured or worse. Just my thoughts, as I've seen it in action, more than once

ChaosCoordinatorRN · Mar 18, 2023

Hoosier_RN said:

Overall, bad idea. If you have no clue about the area, you can't appropriately manage, plan for staffing or supplies, etc. Someone, staff or patient, could be seriously injured or worse. Just my thoughts, as I've seen it in action, more than once

I think so, too. My unit has a new manager who has never worked our area before as a bedside nurse. She's very nice and takes care of issues such as supply problems, maintenance issues, patient procedure scheduling issues, does the usual hiring stuff, etc, but has no idea what we do from the perspective of having done what we do. She's SEEN us do our jobs. She shadows charges and techs, etc, but I remain firm in my opinion that clinical experience is important when you have a job like manager.

Davey Do · Mar 18, 2023

ChaosCoordinatorRN said:

they have great administrative skills but have never worked your field of nursing

It is true that someone who has actually experienced an area of nursing- or any field for that matter- from the ground floor on up has a realistic perspective of the dynamics which take place in order to attain a lucrative goal. However, consider this perspective:

A newbie in the field needs to learn the ways & means of those with experience, and not "by the book". Those of us who have done a job, know the ins &outs, what works & what doesn't, the time & energy saving short cuts, and can teach these to someone who is willing & able to learn them.

Some cases in point: As a NS in HH, I had little to no experience in the programs that I was responsible to manage. I listened to those who did the actual work, discussed the positives & negatives, and coordinated things for which I was responsible.

In another NS position, part of my responsibility was to supervise a methadone clinic, where, again, I had little to no experience. An LPN virtually ran the methadone clinic, and as I told him, "I am not going to fix what's not broken".

Both areas worked out well. But then, a Doc was hired as the medical director, in the center with the methadone clinic, who had no experience outside of research. By the time this Doc had started, I had trained two temp Docs in the position.

This new Doc wanted to make changes in medication programs that I had previous experience in setting up and/or fixing what was broken. Once, he suggested a change in the process and I basically informed him that the process had been attempted previously with bad results.

We butted heads and I lost- my job. Subjectively speaking, I think this Doc had a Short Man Syndrome and perceived me as a threat. But all's well that ends well, for I soon acquired another position making more money with fewer responsibilities.

In summary, I would prefer to work with a supervisor with little experience who is open to learning the position and its responsibilities than to work with someone who mistakenly believes they know what's best for all and attempts to fix what's not broken.

ChaosCoordinatorRN · Mar 18, 2023

Hi Davey Do!

I think there are areas of nursing which do not require boots-on-the-ground for a manager. But, in a field like obstetrics or ICU or OR or emergency medicine, I do believe clinical experience matters. Especially when over 70% is brand new to the field. Kudos to you for rocking that methadone clinic, though!!

ChaosCoordinatorRN · Mar 18, 2023

ChaosCoordinatorRN said:

Hi Davey Do!

I think there are areas of nursing which do not require boots-on-the-ground for a manager. But, in a field like obstetrics or ICU or OR or emergency medicine, I do believe clinical experience matters. Especially when over 70% is brand new to the field. Kudos to you for rocking that methadone clinic, though!!

Oops...meant to say...when over 70% of the staff is new to the type of nursing...

Davey Do · Mar 18, 2023

ChaosCoordinatorRN said:

Oops

One of the great things about making a mistake away from our chosen profession of nursing is not having to fill out an incident report or worry about standing in front of a firing squad.

klone, MSN, RN · Mar 18, 2023

I have mixed feelings. I took a position as a nurse manager in ambulatory care/family medicine, with no experience in that area of nursing, and I excelled. I have also learned the skill of supporting the staff, advocating for the staff, giving them what they need, but still maintain that boundary of not taking an assignment if they're short-staffed. Instead, I will help them in other ways - cleaning exam rooms, running things to the lab, processing dirty instruments, etc.

Likewise, I believe I could do an effective job as a manager in an inpatient unit of an area I have no experience - I can answer call lights, help ambulate patients, take food trays away, etc. I don't have to have experience as a med/surg nurse to be effective as a med/surg unit manager.

So I guess that's my wordy way of saying that a nurse manager does not have to have experience in a particular specialty in order to be effective. She just has to have the right temperament and leadership style, as well as humility to know when you don't know the answers and know who to rely on. One can advocate for their staff, and be able to support them, without having the knowledge to take a patient assignment.

ChaosCoordinatorRN · Mar 19, 2023

Thanks for your perspective, klone! I do appreciate the willingness to learn in a manager, etc, but IMHO, I believe in a specialty that requires a 6-month orientation for staff nurses, the manager needs to know how to perform the function of a charge nurse and that requires years of clinical experience in a specialty. Charges often have to take assignments lately and a manager with clinical experience is critical in such situations. It'a awesome that you did well in the clinic when you were new to that area!! ?

Trauma Columnist · Mar 20, 2023

Just as an aside, Davita which is one of the big two in outpt dialysis does not require a manager to have nursing experience, just some type of leadership skills.

Many places hire for business acumen vs clinical skill. I think its a plus to have clinical skills to back up your leadership or business skills but it may not be necessary

ChaosCoordinatorRN · Mar 20, 2023

traumaRUs said:

Just as an aside, Davita which is one of the big two in outpt dialysis does not require a manager to have nursing experience, just some type of leadership skills.

Many places hire for business acumen vs clinical skill. I think its a plus to have clinical skills to back up your leadership or business skills but it may not be necessary

Yep, I wouldn't at all be surprised if this happens to all healthcare soon.

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Mar 22, 2023

traumaRUs said:

Just as an aside, Davita which is one of the big two in outpt dialysis does not require a manager to have nursing experience, just some type of leadership skills.

Many places hire for business acumen vs clinical skill. I think its a plus to have clinical skills to back up your leadership or business skills but it may not be necessary

A Fresenius in my region tried that. That person got escorted out yesterday, after leaving a clinic short staffed, 1 nurse and 1 tech for 24 patients. He said he didn't realize that was detrimental or dangerous. In dialysis, I know it goes on, but it's concerning when things like this happen. It wasn't this clown's first time doing it, but it was his last. His DO "forgot" that he had no direct patient care experience, and couldn't help on the floor. I'm sure they're answering some tough questions currently