Hey guys. I decided several years ago that I wanted to become a CRNA, and after originally earning a B.S. in Biology, I returned to college and began an ADN program. However, I failed out of the third semester (out of five) of that program -- and not with a "D" (as most people who fail seem to fail with), but with a stinking, glorious "F." To make matters worse, I was originally attending a university's satellite campus, which decided to NOT matriculate another cohort to follow the one I was (formerly) enrolled in, and I tried to re-take the class I failed during the next semester at the main campus located several hours away, but things just didn't work out.
So with all that having been said, at this point, it's looking like my only option is to completely start-over as a brand-spankin'-new RN student at a totally different program. Luckily enough, I applied to and was accepted by several local ADN programs (as well as a BSN program), so the opportunity to attain and capitalize on that coveted second chance is there.
HOWEVER... even if I do decide to follow-through on starting over at one of these new programs, what will the previous failure mean in the context of my future chances of getting accepted at a decent CRNA program? Will most CRNA programs see that I failed out of a program, couldn't hack re-taking the failed course and managing to continue on with the aforementioned program, and reject me outright? Or would I still have a decent shot at receiving, at the very least, a trickle of interview invites... provided I blast through the new RN program and graduate with a 3.8 - 4.0 GPA?
For what it's worth, my GPA after the failure is right at a 3.5; however, this is also taking into account my previous Biology B.S. grades. I have also already taken upper-level courses such as physics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, physiology, and neuroscience, all as requirements for my Bio degree, so there really aren't many more classes I can think of to take to improve my GPA and impress CRNA admissions committees.
At this point, is it really even worth still trying to become a CRNA? If so, should I just focus on applying to programs that only calculate the most recent 60 credits' worth of courses into an applicant's GPA? ... But even if I manage to graduate from the new nursing program with a 4.0, are there some CRNA programs that have strict policies forbidding the consideration of applicants with previous nursing course failures, regardless of whether they tried to "redeem" themselves by starting over at another program? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys would be willing to offer!
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
However, I'm getting the feeling here that you guys have the perception that that wouldn't be enough time spent honing my ICU skills... ?
Well...yes. You have given that impression. You have yet to be admitted into another nursing program. It is concerning that you failed med surg which is imperative to have a grasp of just to work anywhere in a hospital let alone an ICU. I think your energies are best spent focusing on getting into the technical college program you are trying to get into.
Many nurses have strong feelings about having experience to be a nurse anesthetist. To bring someone to that point of unconsciousness so that they are not aware while having surgery is serious business .... you can easily cause death....especially if you are not experienced enough, or knowledgeable enough, to know how to respond to an emergent situation.
It takes more than a year and a half to become comfortable enough to know what to do with a swan ganz (PA line), a balloon pump or other life sustaining equipment so you don't accidentally kill someone. While it is OK to have aspirations and goals...everyone needs to learn how to crawl before the walk and walk before they run.
Thanks for the advice; I guess the only thing I don't understand is why everyone insists that I'll have to work upwards of 3 years as an ICU nurse before I can/should even think about applying to CRNA schools. As I stated earlier in the thread, most of the former ICU nurses I know locally worked for 6-12 months at the most and then applied to CRNA programs. They all were accepted to at least ONE of the schools they applied. So again, if others (and many of them, it seems) have gotten accepted with less than 1 year of experience, why is everyone so convinced that events will play out differently for me?
I think that all nurses should strive to be the best they can be....but to look for a minimalist way to specialize in an area that literally has peoples lives at the tips of their fingers is not the best path. I would care less what other nurses have done to go to anesthesia school....I would want to strive to be better than everyone else instead of looking for the shortest way to join the group.
This whole conversation is a moot point if the mandatory DNP becomes a reality.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
For example, let's say I successfully graduate next December, take/pass the NCLEX, and start working in the ICU in January, assuming everything works out up to that point (and it might not!). Then I apply to CRNA programs the following August, receive interview invites, and I interview at a few programs in, say, October of 2015. At least one of them accepts me, and I'm all set to matriculate the following August/September of 2016. So by the time I would actually start the CRNA program, I'd have ~20 months of ICU experience. However, I'm getting the feeling here that you guys have the perception that that wouldn't be enough time spent honing my ICU skills... ?
I am not sure you realize that you have given the impression that you just want to tap out a minimal amount of time to get to the big bucks with a minimal investment.
I was thinking to myself how I was going to reply to this conversation. I was a medical assistant for almost 10 years. Got out of the medical field for 12 and was just not happy with where my career was going. I have a lot of RN friends and acquaintances, some scoffed me about going into a PN program. Mind you I am a little older. All I heard was, well you won't be an RN and the money isn't good, you will just be a PN, like it's the Black Plague or something. I wanted nursing experience before returning back to school for RN. A lot of people thought that was a dumb move but to me who I care about is the patient. Yeah the money would be nice but to me is helping in the process of someone getting well, or making that someone at the end of their life comfortable. To me it's about the client not the money. Some people call me crazy or your just an PN you don't really matter that much you'll be phased out. I don't listen to them. Enough of my story. But reading your story about how you are so into getting into CRNA program and you didn't want to be "just an RN". One thing that sounds to me like it's just a money thing and the client is just tossed aside. I had one CRNA instead of a DR, and she was the best. Nursing is caring for the client's needs, and compassion for them not the money. It just seems to becoming a changing career a monetary thing nowadays. Just had to say my piece. Maybe you should go into another field that makes a lot of money, because an outsider looking in, when you said you didn't want to be just a nurse, my red flag went up. But to each his own.
You know what? I'm over this thread. I feel like I am talking to a brick wall. Everything we have said hasn't gotten through at all and quite frankly, I am getting annoyed. It is clear you want to do minimal effort for maximal reward.
I don't want a CRNA operating on me or my loved one with that minimalist mindset and lack of listening skills that you have displayed. I don't want someone who refuses to take the advice of those with more experience holding lives in their hands. I want someone who not only has a strong foundation but a dedication to be their best and perform at high standards and not just with the bare minimum to get the big bucks.
I am over this thread. Good luck op...you at going to need it.
Thanks for the advice; I guess the only thing I don't understand is why everyone insists that I'll have to work upwards of 3 years as an ICU nurse before I can/should even think about applying to CRNA schools. As I stated earlier in the thread, most of the former ICU nurses I know locally worked for 6-12 months at the most and then applied to CRNA programs. They all were accepted to at least ONE of the schools they applied. So again, if others (and many of them, it seems) have gotten accepted with less than 1 year of experience, why is everyone so convinced that events will play out differently for me?
I acknowledge that things COULD go awry -- I could fail at my new program, I might not be hired into the ICU right out of school, I might die before I graduate -- but what's wrong with proceeding forward with the intentions of achieving a preferable outcome?
Also, to clarify one thing... someone mentioned that they thought I stated it was my intention to not only apply to, but to matriculate at a CRNA program with only 5-6 months of experience. That's not what I meant. What I was *trying* to say was that I'd like to APPLY after obtaining about 6 months of experience. Since most programs matriculate each new cohort of students approximately one year after that particular admissions cycle ends, that would give me about 1.5 years total of ICU experience by the time I actually start a program.
For example, let's say I successfully graduate next December, take/pass the NCLEX, and start working in the ICU in January, assuming everything works out up to that point (and it might not!). Then I apply to CRNA programs the following August, receive interview invites, and I interview at a few programs in, say, October of 2015. At least one of them accepts me, and I'm all set to matriculate the following August/September of 2016. So by the time I would actually start the CRNA program, I'd have ~20 months of ICU experience. However, I'm getting the feeling here that you guys have the perception that that wouldn't be enough time spent honing my ICU skills... ?
You know what? I'm over this thread. I feel like I am talking to a brick wall. Everything we have said hasn't gotten through at all and quite frankly, I am getting annoyed. It is clear you want to do minimal effort for maximal reward.
Yep, I've found myself banging my head against the wall in this thread too. The OP never actually wanted advice, just people to say he's the best and can easily be in CRNA school less than two years from now. Sigh. Hopefully once back in nursing school reality will kick in and he'll readjust his plans accordingly.
Yep, I've found myself banging my head against the wall in this thread too. The OP never actually wanted advice, just people to say he's the best and can easily be in CRNA school less than two years from now. Sigh. Hopefully once back in nursing school reality will kick in and he'll readjust his plans accordingly.
Agreed. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. I watched my class (in a school with top ratings and NCLEX success rates) go from 225 down to about 180 and while you want to be supportive and friendly and upbeat, when someone fails out of med-surg, you pause for a moment -- what is the first thing you think?
Is it that they had life issues going on? (Everyone will have life issues going on for the rest of their lives.)
Was the teacher unfair or punitive? (Everyone gets the same tests and the teachers are almost always battleaxes)
Was the material too much...? Hrmm... maybe. Maybe they can't hack it. (Every professor I know prefaced classes and clinicals with "Think about the kind of nurse you want to be...the kind of nurse you want taking care of your family.")
Nursing/Nursing school has this amazing thing ... checks, balances, gateways. You can't get anywhere without jumping through a hoop. It ends up being a system that is almost guaranteed to weed out the biggies and as much as anyone might have a lone ranger complex (I know I did) I found out that the good will, belief in me from professors, and the proving of myself never stopped. Ultimately, I came to judge my own success not only with using critical thinking and "EBP" and how well things came out for my patients -- but also from the feedback I got from a network I had to cultivate. We all have to cultivate that network...and it's for the rest of your life. Lone rangers get people killed. I think this system works well to stop those who don't belong from getting ahead or else, making them get their head on _straight_. This isn't a game.
While you may "know people" who got in to CRNA school on their first or second try with minimal experience, did they all fail out of nursing school on their first try too?
Should everything go exactly as planned with a 4.0 in an ADN program, ICU immediately after school, and several superiors willing to write letters of recommendation for you after barely getting a chance to know you and honestly vouch for your competency (should you actually make it out of orientation....many people do realize they won't be able to hack it in an ICU and that the environment is not right for them).....why on Earth would you assume that a program would be willing to interview someone who not only failed an ADN program, but then continued to do the minimum to be in charge of someone's life?
I'm probably not one to say, but your application would do absolutely nothing for me if I were on an admissions committee.
I think there are a lot of things you haven't yet fully wrapped your mind around in terms of being competent, exposure to the necessities required for admission, and the skill set to succeed in an incredibly difficult program.
Well...yes. You have given that impression. You have yet to be admitted into another nursing program. It is concerning that you failed med surg which is imperative to have a grasp of just to work anywhere in a hospital let alone an ICU. I think your energies are best spent focusing on getting into the technical college program you are trying to get into. Many nurses have strong feelings about having experience to be a nurse anesthetist. To bring someone to that point of unconsciousness so that they are not aware while having surgery is serious business .... you can easily cause death....especially if you are not experienced enough, or knowledgeable enough, to know how to respond to an emergent situation. It takes more than a year and a half to become comfortable enough to know what to do with a swan ganz (PA line), a balloon pump or other life sustaining equipment so you don't accidentally kill someone. While it is OK to have aspirations and goals...everyone needs to learn how to crawl before the walk and walk before they run.I think that all nurses should strive to be the best they can be....but to look for a minimalist way to specialize in an area that literally has peoples lives at the tips of their fingers is not the best path. I would care less what other nurses have done to go to anesthesia school....I would want to strive to be better than everyone else instead of looking for the shortest way to join the group. This whole conversation is a moot point if the mandatory DNP becomes a reality.
Thanks for the advice. I get it... even if there are some programs out there (I've heard them referenced as "mill" programs) that routinely accept applicants who only have 6-12 mos. of experience at the time they apply, that's not an indication that everyone SHOULD start CRNA school with only that much experience. And if someone has already failed a med-surg class once, that's an even stronger indication that they really don't *need* to apply with minimal experience, even if some for-profit program is willing to take them. I do want to respond to something else in your post. You mentioned that I should focus on getting accepted to the new ADN I have applied to. Well, I recently took the program's admissions exam and scored "out of the ballpark," as the saying goes, which is why I revived this thread in the first place (I.e., I realized that I will almost definitely get accepted). Aren't admissions exams funny? I scored in the top 1-percentile on the exam, but on the (different) admissions exam I took to gain admission to my original program (the one I failed), I also scored in the top 1-percentile. I remember the test saying something about me having an "excellent" likelihood of getting through an undergraduate program. I guess you can't always go by statistics, huh?
Also, why do you say that all of this will be moot if the DNP becomes the standard? If a program transitions to offering the DNP, does that automatically increase the required minimum number of years of ICU experience an applicant has to have?
No, you can't always go by statistics. At my school, they routinely refuse to readmit people who left school for reasons OTHER than academic failure. "Excellent" likelihood.....
You know what? I'm over this thread. I feel like I am talking to a brick wall. Everything we have said hasn't gotten through at all and quite frankly, I am getting annoyed. It is clear you want to do minimal effort for maximal reward. I don't want a CRNA operating on me or my loved one with that minimalist mindset and lack of listening skills that you have displayed. I don't want someone who refuses to take the advice of those with more experience holding lives in their hands. I want someone who not only has a strong foundation but a dedication to be their best and perform at high standards and not just with the bare minimum to get the big bucks. I am over this thread. Good luck op...you at going to need it.
Now, to be fair, all I did in my previous post that was directed to you was correct a false paraphrasing you made regarding one of my statements (when you said you thought it was my plan to start a CRNA program with only 5-6 months of experience). So yes, what you have said HAS "gotten through to me," but I think we are all on different lines of communication here. For example, at first, other posters said they didn't think I'd be able to get in given my academic history, then I responded by basically saying, "Why not at least try?," and then everyone responded with the (paraphrased) statement that, even if I can find a school willing to accept me, I should consciously choose to pursue gaining additional experience instead.
Obviously, that's your opinion, and you are entirely entitled to it, and I definitely respect that. And to be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to harbor the sentiment that a previous nursing program failure should be obligated to gain substantially more than the minimally-required experience base.
I am not sure you realize that you have given the impression that you just want to tap out a minimal amount of time to get to the big bucks with a minimal investment.
I'm largely just going by what I've observed with some of my friends (yes, there are actually people that desperate) and their experiences with applying to CRNA programs. There are 2 major hospital networks in my area; one of them requires new graduates to sign a 2-year contract to work in the ICU ("hospital A", and the other one only requires that new graduates sign a 1-year contract ("hospital B"). Most of the people I know who are currently CRNA students who went to work for "hospital B" basically did what I'm talking about doing -- they graduated, worked for 5-6 months, applied to programs, and by the time the matriculation period rolled around, they'd gained 1-1.5 years of experience. To be fair, literally half the people I know who did this went to Wolford, so other programs may be more selective.
@flyersfan88 -- yes, this is exactly the kind of response I was originally trying to garner, so thank you! I will be getting in touch with CRNA programs this week to see if they share your perspective.
Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN
20,908 Posts
Many nurses have strong feelings about having experience to be a nurse anesthetist. To bring someone to that point of unconsciousness so that they are not aware while having surgery is serious business .... you can easily cause death....especially if you are not experienced enough, or knowledgeable enough, to know how to respond to an emergent situation.
It takes more than a year and a half to become comfortable enough to know what to do with a swan ganz (PA line), a balloon pump or other life sustaining equipment so you don't accidentally kill someone. While it is OK to have aspirations and goals...everyone needs to learn how to crawl before the walk and walk before they run.
I think that all nurses should strive to be the best they can be....but to look for a minimalist way to specialize in an area that literally has peoples lives at the tips of their fingers is not the best path. I would care less what other nurses have done to go to anesthesia school....I would want to strive to be better than everyone else instead of looking for the shortest way to join the group.This whole conversation is a moot point if the mandatory DNP becomes a reality.