Who should "Pass Gas"?

allnurses Guide · May 2, 2009

Here are some web links on the differences between AAs and CRNAs:

http://www.asahq.org/asarc/AA-CRNA_Comparison.pdf

http://www.ala-crna.org/index_news_comparison.html (same table as above but different format)

Here is one part of the comparison on the number clinical hours for AAs:

Anesthesia Clinical Education: No minimum number of anesthesia cases required in CAAHEP accreditation criteria. AA programs indicate that total clinical hours range from 2000 to 2718. Published descriptions of the AA programs' total clinical hours, greater in number than anesthesia hours, include experiences apart from anesthesia time (e.g., learning to do physicals, taking patient histories, training and certification processes for life support training, and other learning experiences that a licensed professional RN has already mastered prior to nurse anesthesia program entry).

Survey on public opinion of AAs...

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/archives/K/0/pub0888.html

Here is blog from an AA about their daily life as an AA.

https://aajobsearch.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49&PN=1

jwk · May 7, 2009

Survey on public opinion of AAs...
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/archives/K/0/pub0888.html

Geez, lets at least be honest and consider the source here - the AANA is hardly unbiased, and the questions asked were incredibly leading (or misleading as is usually the case with the AANA).

Kinda like those garbage studies over the last couple years looking at OB anesthesia and CRNA's.

allnurses Guide · May 8, 2009

Geez, lets at least be honest and consider the source here - the AANA is hardly unbiased, and the questions asked were incredibly leading (or misleading as is usually the case with the AANA).
Kinda like those garbage studies over the last couple years looking at OB anesthesia and CRNA's.

Yep, if ain't in favor of AA's or MDAs it has to be garbage.....You are on nursing website by the way if you didn't forget. So if these studies are so flawed why don't you post the ASA reponse to how they are flawed or something that is little more substantial other than it has biased because it comes from the AANA.

Everything that comes out about CRNAs from the ASA is biased towards anesthesiologists....that is their professional organization so you expect it to be biased. So why would you not expect some bias from the professional organization for CRNAs? It hardly means that their studies are flawed just because you don't agree with them.

foraneman · May 11, 2009

Allizar revives a 7 year old post under the pretense of asking a career choice question, but in fact writes a lengthy political statement, interjects opinions which are supposedly from someone with no health care experience. What is the question exactly?

sewnew · May 12, 2009

I realize that BSN's usually have at least 1 year experience in a critical care setting before attending a CRNA program (Just as AA's usually come from a very strong medical background), however while caring for sickly elders or working with babies in NICU is amazing and respectable work, I do not believe it should be a prerequisite or considered training directly towards administering anesthesia.

Just for the record, the ICU requirement for CRNA school is typically in a cardiovascular or surgical ICU. The NICU is usually NOT the unit where prospective CRNAs gain their clinical experience. Additionally, the MINIMUM requirement is 1 year. Most CRNA schools prefer 2-3 years in the ICU.

jwk · May 13, 2009

Just for the record, the ICU requirement for CRNA school is typically in a cardiovascular or surgical ICU. The NICU is usually NOT the unit where prospective CRNAs gain their clinical experience. Additionally, the MINIMUM requirement is 1 year. Most CRNA schools prefer 2-3 years in the ICU.

Just for the record, the requirement is for at minimum of 1 year of critical care experience, but each school may determine what constitutes "critical care" for their program. Depending on the program, it can be ER, NICU, or even PACU, in addition to the typical SICU/CCU, etc. And although many schools may prefer 2-3 years in the ICU, the minimum is indeed one year, and I know a number of CRNA's that were accepted to several different CRNA programs prior to their completing that one year, with the proviso that they complete that year prior to their starting their anesthesia program.

sewnew · May 14, 2009

Just for the record, the requirement is for at minimum of 1 year of critical care experience, but each school may determine what constitutes "critical care" for their program. Depending on the program, it can be ER, NICU, or even PACU, in addition to the typical SICU/CCU, etc. And although many schools may prefer 2-3 years in the ICU, the minimum is indeed one year, and I know a number of CRNA's that were accepted to several different CRNA programs prior to their completing that one year, with the proviso that they complete that year prior to their starting their anesthesia program.

Please note that I wrote the words typically and minimum. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule.

PostOpPrincess, BSN, RN · May 15, 2009

I will NEVER allow an AA around my family members; having been around CRNAS and MDs oh say, 18 years in the nursing field and a future CRNA.

NO WAY. There are SO MANY INTRICACIES that an AA with NO PREVIOUS MEDICAL BACKGROUND can EVER see......I see PAs now running around who have NO CLUE....

Again, NO WAY....

jwk · May 16, 2009

I will NEVER allow an AA around my family members; having been around CRNAS and MDs oh say, 18 years in the nursing field and a future CRNA.
NO WAY. There are SO MANY INTRICACIES that an AA with NO PREVIOUS MEDICAL BACKGROUND can EVER see......I see PAs now running around who have NO CLUE....
Again, NO WAY....

Nice emotional response - and of course totally biased towards nursing - that's fine, considering you're a nurse. But all of us see clueless folks out there, and I see plenty of clueless nurses and NP's, as well as all other types of medical or nursing providers you'd like to list.

Did you know many thousands of practicing CRNA's have NO degree whatsoever?

allnurses Guide · May 16, 2009

Nice emotional response - and of course totally biased towards nursing - that's fine, considering you're a nurse. But all of us see clueless folks out there, and I see plenty of clueless nurses and NP's, as well as all other types of medical or nursing providers you'd like to list.
Did you know many thousands of practicing CRNA's have NO degree whatsoever?

I would suggest if you want a non biased response to stop hanging out on nursing websites.

Now for the part about non degree CRNAs.....The AANA has required a Master's degree to become a CRNA since 1990, almost twenty years! I don't anyone is going to have any qualms about a CRNA that has been practicing over 20yrs having a certificate vs a MSN.

According to the AMA anesthesiologist assistants have only had their national certification set up since 1989! The idea of AAs only goes back to sometime in the 1970's and there is still only a couple of thousand AA's!

Also, I highly doubt there are still thousands of practicing CRNAs w/o degrees. There are only around 30,000 CRNAs to begin with and then by the time you figure that the youngest CRNA would have to been practicing for over 20yrs.....I think someone is skewing facts for their own AA campaign now.

Now as far as people/nurses being uniformed about AAs. I think most of us are perfectly informed what AAs have become. The AA is nothing more than degree program for intelligent people designed to give the AMA/ASA a political tool to fight CRNA independence to ensure that MDAs maintain their supervising capabilities and high pay. The stuff about shortage of anesthesia providers is all bull! ASA doesn't care that there are potential shortages. ASA only cares about supervision and control of AAs/CRNAs. The recent AA battle in Maryland was a perfect example. The ASA tried to start an AA program in Maryland under the premise that their was/would be overall shortage of anesthesia providers in Maryland. When it was pointed out it would be faster and cheaper to just expand Univ. of Maryland's nurse anesthesia program then the story changed to oh we want to diversify the anesthesia providers!

sewnew · May 17, 2009

The recent AA battle in Maryland was a perfect example. The ASA tried to start an AA program in Maryland under the premise that their was/would be overall shortage of anesthesia providers in Maryland. When it was pointed out it would be faster and cheaper to just expand Univ. of Maryland's nurse anesthesia program then the story changed to oh we want to diversify the anesthesia providers!

Can you elaborate a little more on this? I live in MD and am an aspiring CRNA. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

allnurses Guide · May 17, 2009

Can you elaborate a little more on this? I live in MD and am an aspiring CRNA. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

Here is an excerpt from an article/response to AA's in Maryland:

New Anesthesia Provider May Threaten Operating Room Safety
Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:47pm EST
Legislation would Lower the Standard of Care by Allowing Inexperienced and
Less Educated Anesthesiologist Assistants to Deliver Anesthesia to Maryland
Patients
ANNAPOLIS, Md., Feb. 24 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Maryland Association of
Nurse Anesthetists (MANA), whose members are Certified Registered Nurse
Anesthetists (CRNAs), today announced their opposition to Senate Bill 798 and
House Bill 1161. These troubling bills would license anesthesiologist
assistants (AAs) to practice in Maryland and would drastically alter the
anesthesia delivery model currently utilized in the state. AAs, who are less
qualified than anesthesiologists and CRNAs, currently are licensed or
certified to practice in only 10 states and cannot practice in the U.S.
Military. The bills are being supported by Johns Hopkins Hospital.
"The passage of this legislation would radically ...

Here is ASA's response about AA's http://www.beckersasc.com/news-analysis-asc/antikickback-legal-regulatory/anesthesiologist-assistants-may-soon-be-licensed-in-maryland.html

If you read through the PDF file you will see that the ASA has only officially included AA's in their ACT model since 1987 kinda of interesting when AA's want to complain that AANA has required since 1990....