Canada's healthcare saved her; Ours won't cover her

Nurses Activism

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Canada's healthcare saved her; Ours won't cover her

Source: LA Times

If you offer health insurance as a for-profit business, it goes without saying that you'll do everything you can to avoid making payouts. That means you'll shun anyone with even a whiff of medical trouble.

But this is no way to run an insurance system, let alone to protect people from financial ruin due to catastrophic events such as being sent to the hospital by a drunk driver.

The Obama administration has already rejected the idea of a single-payer system similar to Canada's -- a mistake, in my opinion. Instead, it wants a smaller public program that would compete with private insurers and keep costs down.

Private insurers, not surprisingly, are lobbying aggressively to kill off that idea. They'd rather have a national mandate that would require all Americans to buy their product.

In return, they say, they'd stop sending rejection letters to people like Yount with preexisting conditions. But policyholders would still be subject to the companies' various terms and conditions.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
Wow, should everyone be poor in this country? Should we all strive to the lowest common denominator?

Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth and socialism is the equal distribution of misery.

Cute, CRNA2007. Even though there could be that many illegal aliens here, they're not all stupid. I've known many who became literate while here, got educations, became self sustaining, and are a credit to this country, as are some of their children and grandchildren.

THEY are not the lowest denominator, it's those who believe that all immigrants stay as they were the day they arrived, and perpetuate untruths who are the lowest denomenator. Granted there have been big problems, as there were when Italians, Irish, Polish, Greek, and Russian immigrants, along with others, came through Ellis Island. Let's not encourage the re-creation of, "You're different, I hate you"!

I've worked among Hispanic people many years, and found that those who remained true to their culture have presented less problems than the newer generations, who fell victim to our drug and gang cultures. There are more problems with the drugs in their countries, due to viscious cartels.

As far as equal distribution of anything - it hasn't happened yet, and it's unlikely that it ever will...... The misery is caused by dictatorships exerting their own will over others. In Russia, the communist revolution wasn't about equality. It was about getting even with those who held power and wealth previously. Then, as victims do, the people became victims of their "liberators" who wouldn't even let them leave the country if/when they wished. There is a movie about modern life in East Berlin/Germany that epitomizes the constrictions there. It's a foreign German film called "The Lives of Others", well worth watching.

By the way, no one is miserable in Canada, unless they aren't assertive about their health needs, or earn less than their needs dictate and have too much pride to apply for financial aid. My friends and family members there, from B.C. to the Maritimes have no complaints about their medical care, they have prevented most of the diseases we Americans have by the millions, and are mostly compliant about taking their meds, as they're free! I've had to choose to pay for the ones I need most, for which I had money. They follow prescribed diets, take illness seriously for the most part because they receive enough information about their disease to make those decisions for themselves (especially diabetics); and they have much lower morbidity and mortality stats than we do............. and theirs is a capitalist system - with few heads of industry on the take, at the expense of others!

If that occurs, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (equivalent, but far superior to our FBI) quickly figure out what's going on, as the tolerance (obeisence) of crooks is zip.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

The difference between preventive health programs here, and in Canada, is that the desire to be healthy isn't fostered by teachers at school, here. Lip service is given good health practises, here, but the caring factor is left out. When a child has been ill and returns to school, does anyone say, "I'm so glad you're back, I missed you. Don't get sick again, eat apples".

Here, it's the YOU WILL DO THIS BECAUSE I SAY SO factor, which isn't heard, because students aren't listening by the time they have those facts flung at them, with the implication that they're hopeless kids who won't take care of themselves, anyway. It's a predictor that is self fulfilling - like the one a politician says in his campaign spots on TV, "You know how many prisoners there'll be by looking at kids in the 3 rd grade". So of course nothing is done about that, unless he becomes the Governor - and probably not even then.......

It would be better if those articles you've flung there, had an analysis of the type of teachers/approaches, types of visual aids and how they're presented, and emotion that gets students and the public's attention.

I'm a public health nurse, and have watched untold numbers of others' presentations about healthy living. The goal is to present X amount of material in X amount of time to as many people as possible. There is no consideration of the material matching learning skills (different than smart and dumb), readiness/interest for the information, or self esteem of the listeners, which has a lot to do with their willingness to live less complicated lives. A good teacher assesses his/her students, creates imagery to perk up their desire to know more, asks throughout the presentation if they got it, want to know more, or think they'll use the information. Visual aids need to be used only after the teacher views them, knows when they get dull (encouraging sleep), and if they achieve the goals desired (as evidenced by enhanced immediate and later recall of the material.

Somehow in this land of many superior minds, the goal of health education is always what it achieves for the presenter, not if it meets examined needs of those attending, with the added benefit of achieving absorption of the material and ability to use it! None of that was shown in the sources of information given, although presumably credible. All the tests given students these days to determine what has been learned, yield abysmal results if compared with that in other literate countries. Employers despair about the abilities of high school graduates who work for them these days. The evidence is everywhere that learning isn't happening, among the bulk of students! What has happened is that, rather than learning the material taught, the students have learned to "work the system".

Have you ever watched Jay Leno doing his "Jay-walking" stuff? He doesn't purposely go for the most unintelligent looking folks, he goes for anyone who isn't afraid to talk into a mike. He asks questions that is on most elementary school curricula, and gets the most extraordinary ignorant responses! My favorite is how many young people think President Lincoln was our first President..... Then he'll do everything, including give the answer, and they still get it wrong. Now you coukld say that's because they're nervous, but that doesn't jam the brains of what they already know, it's that they never learned it sufficiently to recall the information they read and were taught!

So do Canadians function better? From the things I've seen my nephews and their children accomplish, I have to say they do learn more. One of the things that causes that, is that final exams cover all the facts taught for all the previous years they attended school, and they WANT TO DO WELL, not only to please teachers and parents, but mostly for themselves! Now when I was a student there in high school, I was different, from a highly dysfunctional family. If a teacher betrayed his/her profession, by teaching badly, as if they didn't care if anyone learned a thing, I wanted to show them up by getting the lowest grade in their subject I could, just to expose how bad they were! Well, guess who was shown up. I suppose I was the exception, not the rule.

It took nursing school to separate the me who could achieve good grades, because I very much wanted to really know the material, from the underachiever/victim of faulty parents. Being a nurse was so important for me that I overcame my anger (well, not completely, as you can see in my posts), and gave in to my caring self. I got the highest grades ever achieved in my licensing exams. :heartbeat It was due in greatest part to my supportive teachers who told me I was bright (no one had said that about me, before that).

A. It's not the function of the public school system to be teaching anything other than a standard education curriculumn.

B. We have public school graduates in this country that cannot read or write because of the lack of a basic education curriculumn and being taught a bunch of left wing propaganda about global warming and conflict resolution instead of reading and writing and we won't even get into basic math skills.

The difference between preventive health programs here, and in Canada, is that the desire to be healthy isn't fostered by teachers at school, here. Lip service is given good health practises, here, but the caring factor is left out. When a child has been ill and returns to school, does anyone say, "I'm so glad you're back, I missed you. Don't get sick again, eat apples".

Here, it's the YOU WILL DO THIS BECAUSE I SAY SO factor, which isn't heard, because students aren't listening by the time they have those facts flung at them, with the implication that they're hopeless kids who won't take care of themselves, anyway. It's a predictor that is self fulfilling - like the one a politician says in his campaign spots on TV, "You know how many prisoners there'll be by looking at kids in the 3 rd grade". So of course nothing is done about that, unless he becomes the Governor - and probably not even then.......

It would be better if those articles you've flung there, had an analysis of the type of teachers/approaches, types of visual aids and how they're presented, and emotion that gets students and the public's attention.

I'm a public health nurse, and have watched untold numbers of others' presentations about healthy living. The goal is to present X amount of material in X amount of time to as many people as possible. There is no consideration of the material matching learning skills (different than smart and dumb), readiness/interest for the information, or self esteem of the listeners, which has a lot to do with their willingness to live less complicated lives. A good teacher assesses his/her students, creates imagery to perk up their desire to know more, asks throughout the presentation if they got it, want to know more, or think they'll use the information. Visual aids need to be used only after the teacher views them, knows when they get dull (encouraging sleep), and if they achieve the goals desired (as evidenced by enhanced immediate and later recall of the material.

Somehow in this land of many superior minds, the goal of health education is always what it achieves for the presenter, not if it meets examined needs of those attending, with the added benefit of achieving absorption of the material and ability to use it! None of that was shown in the sources of information given, although presumably credible. All the tests given students these days to determine what has been learned, yield abysmal results if compared with that in other literate countries. Employers despair about the abilities of high school graduates who work for them these days. The evidence is everywhere that learning isn't happening, among the bulk of students! What has happened is that, rather than learning the material taught, the students have learned to "work the system".

Have you ever watched Jay Leno doing his "Jay-walking" stuff? He doesn't purposely go for the most unintelligent looking folks, he goes for anyone who isn't afraid to talk into a mike. He asks questions that is on most elementary school curricula, and gets the most extraordinary ignorant responses! My favorite is how many young people think President Lincoln was our first President..... Then he'll do everything, including give the answer, and they still get it wrong. Now you coukld say that's because they're nervous, but that doesn't jam the brains of what they already know, it's that they never learned it sufficiently to recall the information they read and were taught!

So do Canadians function better? From the things I've seen my nephews and their children accomplish, I have to say they do learn more. One of the things that causes that, is that final exams cover all the facts taught for all the previous years they attended school, and they WANT TO DO WELL, not only to please teachers and parents, but mostly for themselves! Now when I was a student there in high school, I was different, from a highly dysfunctional family. If a teacher betrayed his/her profession, by teaching badly, as if they didn't care if anyone learned a thing, I wanted to show them up by getting the lowest grade in their subject I could, just to expose how bad they were! Well, guess who was shown up. I suppose I was the exception, not the rule.

It took nursing school to separate the me who could achieve good grades, because I very much wanted to really know the material, from the underachiever/victim of faulty parents. Being a nurse was so important for me that I overcame my anger (well, not completely, as you can see in my posts), and gave in to my caring self. I got the highest grades ever achieved in my licensing exams. :heartbeat It was due in greatest part to my supportive teachers who told me I was bright (no one had said that about me, before that).

B. We have public school graduates in this country that cannot read or write because of the lack of a basic education curriculumn and being taught a bunch of left wing propaganda about global warming and conflict resolution instead of reading and writing and we won't even get into basic math skills.

Well, if global warming is "left wing propaganda," then conservatives should take their kids out of school and teach them intelligent design then, since science is obviously not a priority!

Science is one thing junk science is quite another!

Well, if global warming is "left wing propaganda," then conservatives should take their kids out of school and teach them intelligent design then, since science is obviously not a priority!
Specializes in ER and family advanced nursing practice.
A. It's not the function of the public school system to be teaching anything other than a standard education curriculumn.

B. We have public school graduates in this country that cannot read or write because of the lack of a basic education curriculumn and being taught a bunch of left wing propaganda about global warming and conflict resolution instead of reading and writing and we won't even get into basic math skills.

Science is one thing junk science is quite another!

In a survey of scientists (n=3146) were asked if a) was there global warming? and b) was it influenced by human activity? 92 percent said yes to "A" and 82 percent said yes to "B". Of those scientists 97 percent of those that identified themselves as climatologists said yes to "B". Exactly how is this based on "junk" science? It is just like "right wing propagandists" to say that global warming is a myth. So you are an educated person, why is it junk science? Why is it propaganda? What are your sources? God forbid we try do something about climate change, end up being wrong, but in the process make the world a nicer, cleaner place to live. Not a bad deal if we are wrong about climate change, unlike "Lets bomb this country that had nothing to do with anything and if we are wrong....we just won't admit we are wrong!"

You are right. There are deficits in our school system, but I find it almost laughable, but really very sad and scary, that you would blame this on liberals when time and time again it has been the conservative party in this country that has cut education budgets. Again, it is just like conservative, right wing propagandists to get out there and just spout stuff with no credible sources or facts to back them up. Cheney and Bush were the masters of that, and of course very much in line with global warming is human influenced=myth=junk science.

Ivan the very liberal left wing propagandist

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.

Oh dear, dear, dear, CRNA:

I'm so sorry to disappoint you in your wish to standardize all education. It can't be done! Human beings, not R2D2 teach school and lend their personalities/characteristics and backgrounds to the way material is presented. If it was otherwise, no credibility would be given the curriculum. It's the teachers' faith that it's important to teach the items on it, that makes it happen.

However, due to lack of respect engendered in homes wherein teachers and the government and any other authority figure or organization is put down, thyat foster the behavior seen at school. My friends who are teachers are exhausted at the end of their 10 hour days, when they come home to grade papers and do lesson plans. Keeping order in the classroom is a daunting task, since disrespect incurs actions we only encounter in psych units!

Spend a day in a middle school and another one in a high school class, and you'll see what happens. Learning, if it does happen occurs in the midst of

noise and mayhem, which would take all day to turn off, if someone could.

It isn't pretty. You'll willingly return to your job, happy that kids aren't on the streets. Oops! They will be, next month. If you then fill them with your erroneous views about science, they'll present even greater problems in school in the fall.

Have you gotten your information off the web, from clergy, or what? Are you one of the folks who believe that if it isn't in the Bible, a theory or knowledge doesn't exist?

Cool now a survey is judged scientific fact. Puuhlease their is no proof that man causes global warming and as a matter of FACT the Earth ihas been cooling for several years now. Just typical left wing fear mongering designed to confiscate more wealth from tax payers.

In a survey of scientists (n=3146) were asked if a) was there global warming? and b) was it influenced by human activity? 92 percent said yes to "A" and 82 percent said yes to "B". Of those scientists 97 percent of those that identified themselves as climatologists said yes to "B". Exactly how is this based on "junk" science? It is just like "right wing propagandists" to say that global warming is a myth. So you are an educated person, why is it junk science? Why is it propaganda? What are your sources? God forbid we try do something about climate change, end up being wrong, but in the process make the world a nicer, cleaner place to live. Not a bad deal if we are wrong about climate change, unlike "Lets bomb this country that had nothing to do with anything and if we are wrong....we just won't admit we are wrong!"

You are right. There are deficits in our school system, but I find it almost laughable, but really very sad and scary, that you would blame this on liberals when time and time again it has been the conservative party in this country that has cut education budgets. Again, it is just like conservative, right wing propagandists to get out there and just spout stuff with no credible sources or facts to back them up. Cheney and Busy were the masters of that, and of course very much in line with global warming is human influenced=myth=junk science.

Ivan the very liberal left wing propagandist

My wife is a middle school teacher so yes I know exactly what goes on in schools. The fact you have friends as teachers is meaningless how many of them have taught on Indian Reservations in the middle of the no where?? So take your condesending attitude somewhere else until you have actual first hand knowledge of actually how schools operate.

Oh dear, dear, dear, CRNA:

I'm so sorry to disappoint you in your wish to standardize all education. It can't be done! Human beings, not R2D2 teach school and lend their personalities/characteristics and backgrounds to the way material is presented. If it was otherwise, no credibility would be given the curriculum. It's the teachers' faith that it's important to teach the items on it, that makes it happen.

However, due to lack of respect engendered in homes wherein teachers and the government and any other authority figure or organization is put down, thyat foster the behavior seen at school. My friends who are teachers are exhausted at the end of their 10 hour days, when they come home to grade papers and do lesson plans. Keeping order in the classroom is a daunting task, since disrespect incurs actions we only encounter in psych units!

Spend a day in a middle school and another one in a high school class, and you'll see what happens. Learning, if it does happen occurs in the midst of

noise and mayhem, which would take all day to turn off, if someone could.

It isn't pretty. You'll willingly return to your job, happy that kids aren't on the streets. Oops! They will be, next month. If you then fill them with your erroneous views about science, they'll present even greater problems in school in the fall.

Have you gotten your information off the web, from clergy, or what? Are you one of the folks who believe that if it isn't in the Bible, a theory or knowledge doesn't exist?

Cool now a survey is judged scientific fact.

Your logical deduction gets a fail. The survey was cited to show that most scientists (you know, actual experts) believe that the evidence supports that global warming is fact, not that the survey itself was the proof.

Puuhlease their is no proof that man causes global warming and as a matter of FACT the Earth ihas been cooling for several years now. Just typical left wing fear mongering designed to confiscate more wealth from tax payers.
Yes, you have found out our left wing dastardly plan to tax those CRNAs earning six figures! That's why we go around spreading our left wing facts. :icon_roll

Top anti-global warming lies debunked

(warning: actual scholarly scientific studies with pesky facts and data cited - should not be confused with junk science)

why do all canadians with money come to the states to get high risk surgery? because it's not as great as it sounds folks! universal care has its advantages, but let's not forget the disadvantages, namely paying a butt-load of taxes. i was born in canada, my father went to medical school there, and the day he graduated, he moved to the us to complete his residency here and never went back. he refuses to work there! do you like going to the dmv? well, that is what going to the doctor will be like if uncle sam is running the show. i'd personally would have a choice of which specialist i go and see, another thing i would give up with universal health care. are you guys stopping to think about the choices you'll be giving up? and to those who think doctors charge too much, think of all the people who go to the hospital every year, who must be seen, but don't pay a dime! majority of the people i take care of in the er personally. most the time it isn't even an "emergency", they know they will be seen, but won't have to pay! government again at its finest...

so, your father took advantage of a subsidized university education made possible for him because of the higher taxes and then left never to return... classy guy. for him to take advantage of a very long education at a greatly reduced cost and then flee because of paying the higher taxes that made that possible reeks of hypocrisy. i think he is morally obligated to pay canada back by paying the true cost of his university education.

for someone supposedly born in canada you are certainly short on facts. i can choose my doctor and my specialist. this myth that canadians have no say in who their doctor is needs to stop, it is particularly worrisome that someone born here is helping to perpetuate this fear mongering.

Specializes in Advanced Practice, surgery.

Education and global warming, I had to dig a bit to find out what this thread was originally about.

It would see that we have strayed a little from the topic so to refresh

Canada's Healthcare System

Maggie Yount, a Canadian citizen, got months of treatment and rehab in Canada after a drunk driver crashed into her car in 2007. The accident broke 13 of her bones, injured her brain and left her in a coma for four days.

Yount wasn't surprised when the letter from insurance giant Anthem Blue Cross arrived the other day. Yet she couldn't help but be frustrated.

"Some medical conditions, either alone or in combination with the cost of medication, present uncertain medical underwriting risks," Anthem informed her. "In view of these risks, we find we are unable to offer you enrollment at this time."

Can we try to stay on topic please

Thanks

Sharrie

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