Can paramedic or EMT administer an IM med like Haldol or Ativan to help unruly pt?

[~Transplant Nurse~]

So we're watching "Cops" and the episode showed a belligerent person being sat on the back of an ambulance or treatment of a cut on her face. She was kicking and screaming, so the police officer threatened to tase her. We were wondering, once someone is placed in the ambulance, can the paramedic or EMT administer an IM med like Haldol or Ativan to help control their behavior? I'm guessing so, but my husband doesn't think so. Anybody in emergency medicine know?

[TraumaSurfer]

Yeah, well, when you can joke around and people know it then it's fine. Being a nerd about it like the time someone mentioned something about a chair and a psych patient is no reason for you to come on here and tell me what you think. I really couldn't care less.

The TASER is an awesome product. I owe my life to it.

I don't think anyone would disagree in life threatening situations. But, your comment here:

The gratification is much greater than giving any medication.

shows that you probably used it when medications could have been for your own pleasure and not of benefit to the patient.

One has to wonder what else you have done or will do to patients just for personal gratification.

Close it so I don't feel obligated to come back. I don't walk away from things very well.

Don't bother replying to this. You're talking to a brick wall.

You are the typical EMS forum bully. You want to control who posts.

[ImThatGuy, BSN, RN]

I don't think anyone would disagree in life threatening situations. But, your comment here:

shows that you probably used it when medications could have been for your own pleasure and not of benefit to the patient.

One has to wonder what else you have done or will do to patients just for personal gratification.

You are the typical EMS forum bully. You want to control who posts.

What? When could I have administered medications? Cops don't carry meds. And what medical people carry TASERs? When I've deployed the TASER it's been as a police officer. What do you think I do for a living? Shell peanuts?

If you want to understand the gratification then join up and do it. Using a TASER is much more interesting (any officer will tell you this) than any time I've ever done an IVP or IM, etc. as a medic (again medic'ing was my part-time job).

BTW, I don't do EMS forums.

[TraumaSurfer]

What? When could I have administered medications? Cops don't carry meds. And what medical people carry TASERs? When I've deployed the TASER it's been as a police officer. What do you think I do for a living? Shell peanuts?

If you want to understand the gratification then join up and do it. Using a TASER is much more interesting (any officer will tell you this) than any time I've ever done an IVP or IM, etc. as a medic (again medic'ing was my part-time job).

BTW, I don't do EMS forums.

The discussion is on a forum with medical professionals and you made the comparison for tasers and medication in reference to gratification.

Police Officers are also aware of what a taser does to a patient and most will not admit on an open public forum that it gives them gratification to use it. They might in a private discussion amongst their peers but rarely will they tell the general public the same things.

But, in line with this discussion, would you prefer to just use the taser rather than IM haldol if you had the choice as a Paramedic or nurse? Would you still prefer the taser for the gratification of what it does to the patient?

BTW, you don't have to join the police force to know what a taser is all about. Some Paramedics get the demo also and many others are around when it is used to see it first hand. I think many would agree that they wish there had been a better way through pharmacology of doing things if there was a chance.

[ImThatGuy, BSN, RN]

Police Officers are also aware of what a taser does to a patient and most will not admit on an open public forum that it gives them gratification to use it. They might in a private discussion amongst their peers but rarely will they tell the general public the same things.

But, in line with this discussion, would you prefer to just use the taser rather than IM haldol if you had the choice as a Paramedic or nurse? Would you still prefer the taser for the gratification of what it does to the patient?

BTW, you don't have to join the police force to know what a taser is all about. Some Paramedics get the demo also and many others are around when it is used to see it first hand.

You don't frequent many police forums do you. I do. Everyday for the last five years at least. It's a subculture. Get past it. I've been tased. It's really not that big of a deal.

Haldol or TASER? Good question. If a nurse could lawfully use a TASER in the workplace...

Answer: It depends. If we had, for example, a paranoid, schizophrenic patient armed with a knife or club then yeah I'd gladly use a TASER. It's safer. If, however, it was the same person, unarmed, then yeah I'd have no problem with pinning them and using Haldol or some other chemical agent.

Can't wait to see what you have to say next. Like I've said before, TS, we should just IM. I've been off the past four days and bored at the house.

[ImThatGuy, BSN, RN]

I'm done here. I'm tired of being childish. Lunah asked us to stop so I'm stopping.

[justashooter]

You don't frequent many police forums do you. I do. Everyday for the last five years at least. It's a subculture. Get past it. I've been tased. It's really not that big of a deal.

that's the beauty of the internet. you never know exactly who you are talking to at any given moment unless they tell you, and even then it's not a certainty.

some of us do frequent police forums. they are a wonderful view into the minds of certain types of police officers (usually those on the fringe of the culture). they are a valuable resuorce for those studying the more extreme facets of the culture, in that the perceived anonymity of the forums encourages posters to write the things that they really feel, whether such feelings are accepted in the mainstream police culture, or not.

why my interest? let's just say that when i was a young man i used to shoot people for a living under governmental sanction, that i used to "cuff and stuff" people under government sanction, and that i was simple minded enuf to rationalise a "nuremberg defense". let's just say that since then i have sat in a corner office and listened to people tell me about what it is like to be raped, molested, or physically and psychologically abused by persons in authority. let's just say that my specialty was in dealing with victims of police and military abuse.

let's just say that in more than one case i advocated for a person who was abused by a police officer who beat them within an inch of their life for no legitimate reason, acting in unrepentant rage (with video as evidence), and have seen how the thin blue shield mentality deals with aggressors that act under "colour of authority". let's just say that i have been called to testify in S1983 cases involving egregious abuse of police power involving repeated use of tasers on persons who were handcuffed and immobilised by multiple law enforcement officers (again, with video).

i have seen the elephant from several sides, and come to the conclusion that each and every conflict involving aggression is a complex interweaving of interpersonal dynamic in which each involved party, whether active, passive, or even just by-standing has a role that is determined by their own persona, however simple or complex it may be. the responsibility that such an understanding brings me is the need to provide structure for those around to prevent them from bringing their own persona into the conflict, and thereby contaminating it's essense.

each conflict is an individual moment. what we do in these moments should be based on sound reasoning and cultural sanction, rather than personal gratification or projection of unmet personal need. in any case, least restrictive restraint is our best guideline in the current dominant culture. subcultures must bow to this standard, or be corrected.

[AnnieOaklyRN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

I'm done here. I'm tired of being childish. Lunah asked us to stop so I'm stopping.

Yeah you are just wasting tour time with this Traumasurferr person, he or she is just looking for trouble on here! They goodness for the ignore button!

Happy

[TraumaSurfer]

You don't frequent many police forums do you. I do. Everyday for the last five years at least. It's a subculture. Get past it. I've been tased. It's really not that big of a deal.

Haldol or TASER? Good question. If a nurse could lawfully use a TASER in the workplace...

Answer: It depends. If we had, for example, a paranoid, schizophrenic patient armed with a knife or club then yeah I'd gladly use a TASER. It's safer. If, however, it was the same person, unarmed, then yeah I'd have no problem with pinning them and using Haldol or some other chemical agent.

Can't wait to see what you have to say next. Like I've said before, TS, we should just IM. I've been off the past four days and bored at the house.

Since you don't have any hospital experience, I doubt if you know how you will act in any situation with a patient.

And since it seems your police experience comes primarily from other anonymous forums, I seriously doubt if you can speak what you would do in those situations either.

You might be surprised to know how many RNs work in situations where violence can break out and restraints of whatever type are necessary such as EDs, jails, prisons and psych institutions.

Also, I am not giving out any personal information to you and I hope the moderators do not either.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

This thread is DONE. Thanks.

I suggest you two investigate the "ignore" feature. It would benefit all of us.