Can the DON make you stay for OT if the next shift doesn't show or is called off?

Specialties Geriatric

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I work in a long term care facility as the evening supervisor. I just took this position a couple of months ago, but have noticed that we have A LOT of call offs. The DON told me on Tuesday that if the 11-7 nurse calls off then it is the responsiblity of the 3-11 nurse to stay until relief is found. She told me that the 3-11 shift needs to stay at least 4 hours and then the unit manager can take the other 4 hours of the shift. Okay.....so what if no one can stay? They have other jobs, have to get home and sleep to take care of their little ones, or have a ride waiting for them outside. Last night I had a nurse call off AFTER she was suppost to be there. Called around to try to get someone and asked everyone in the building if they could do a double or at least another 4 hours, but no one could stay. I called the unit manager at that point, who poor thing had just gone to bed an hour earlier, and she came in. Obviously the nurse that called off will get in trouble for not following procedure, but where does that leave everyone else? Can the DON MAKE someone work 1/2 a shift of OT or is it the unit manager's responsablilty to fill the shift? My husband leaves at 5am in the morning, so if I ever have to stay the full shift, he will not be able to go to work on time himself, since we have 3 kids at home that he couldn't just leave. By the way this has happend twice this week. I don't know if this is a trend or if it's just a bad week, but I am concerned.:uhoh3:

thank god that in a union situation is not nearly as difficult to fire incompetent managers.

ever hear of the peter principle? ;)

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Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

Contrary to what seems to be the popular opinion here, not all managers are evil or lazy or stupid. Y'all think it's easy to run a building? There are families to please, schedules to do, doctors to manage, corporate people every day asking why we spend so much money, staff calling out at the last minute. I spend hours and hours a week explaining to the owners of the corporation why the supply budget isn't enough or why I need x number of nurses on each unit. Don't lump all managers together please. Let's not turn this thread into an us vs. them.

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Specializes in MED/SURG STROKE UNIT, LTC SUPER., IMU.

You are right! Most of the managers are great at my facility. I just didn't like the tactic they wanted me to use to get good, hardworking nurses to stay after their shift. I understand the hard work that they put in, but I also understand the fact that they have all of the control concerning hiring/firing and scheduling. This particular nurse that called out AFTER the shift started is a chronic call out or tardy. They just moved her to the 11-7 shift at her request. I would have never moved her to such a critical position that you can almost never get someone to come in for at the last minute. The problem lies with the constant call outs and tardy nurses, but the solution lies with managment acting on the issues and either not moving someone like this into such a critical position or addressing her call outs and tardies.:twocents:

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Contrary to what seems to be the popular opinion here, not all managers are evil or lazy or stupid. Y'all think it's easy to run a building? There are families to please, schedules to do, doctors to manage, corporate people every day asking why we spend so much money, staff calling out at the last minute. I spend hours and hours a week explaining to the owners of the corporation why the supply budget isn't enough or why I need x number of nurses on each unit. Don't lump all managers together please. Let's not turn this thread into an us vs. them.

Nor are all nurses incompetent.

Using the difficulty to dismiss incompetent nurses as a reason to not have a union seems a bit irrational.

Every union contract that I have ever seen clearly sets forth the process to make a case for terminating underperforming employees. It is contingent upon management to document the short comings and then follow the process. Verbal warning, written warning etc.....

Most "incompetent nurses" are simply overwhelmed becaue management has not provided a proper work environment.....anyway........back to my regularly scheduled program......

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Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

We could go on for days or we could agree to disagree. Even without a union there is a process one must go through before one can terminate an employee. Not all nurses are wonderful. Not all managers should or can manage. But at the end of the day, it's not about you or me or the union. It's about the residents.

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Specializes in Geriatrics.

I agree with Capecod. I am a DON of a facility. I am willing to take my turn in coverage and have done so. When you figure out the hours I put in- I make much less $ then the nurses. Thats OK. I took the position. I have mandated the 11-7 staff once and it was an emergency. Due to snow, I only had 3 aides and 2 nurses for 59 residents on dayshift and one of the aides was orienting. Sorry that wasn't safe. I told them they only had to stay through b-fest. I then got up, shoveled out my driveway, and went in. As far as abandonment- I only have one nurse working 11-7, so if she calls out and 3-11 can't find a replacement, I would expect someone to stay at least untill I got there. If they walked out with no coverage- I would let them go(that is a safety issue). I will say, it is also not as easy to let folks go as you think for absenteeism and tardiness- there is a process you have to go through. It does come down to being about the residents we care for- thats why I became a nurse. I would hope the folks I hired felt the same(and most do).

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Specializes in Psych, Med/Surg, LTC.
I agree with Capecod. I am a DON of a facility. I am willing to take my turn in coverage and have done so. When you figure out the hours I put in- it's much less then the nurses. Thats OK. I took the position. I have mandated the 11-7 staff once and it was an emergency. Due to snow, I only had 3 aides and 2 nurses for 59 residents on dayshift and one of the aides was orienting. Sorry that wasn't safe. I told them they only had to stay through b-fest. I then got up, shoveled out my driveway, and went in. As far as abandonment- I only have one nurse working 11-7, so if she calls out and 3-11 can't find a replacement, I would expect someone to stay at least untill I got there. If they walked out with no coverage- I would let them go(that is a safety issue). I will say, it is also not as easy to let folks go as you think for absenteeism and tardiness- there is a process you have to go through. It does come down to being about the residents we care for- thats why I became a nurse. I would hope the folks I hired felt the same(and most do).

It sounds like you are being fair in the situations you describe. Making someone stay through breakfast is totally different than telling them they have to stay through a whole shift. Same with telling someone to stay until you can get there- That is just a safety issue- and again, you aren't asking them to stay an entire extra shift. We are talking, what, an hour or 2 max in these situations? These kind of issues pop up sometimes. Helping out a little bit once and a while is pretty much expected and fair. but staying a whole extra shift shouldn't happen unless there are extreme emergencies. (ONE person calling off does not make an extreme emergency!) I would not mind at all working where you work.

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Specializes in OB, Peds, Med Surg and Geriatric Nsg.

Can anybody post a link for PA BON regarding these regulations? I'm a new USRN and I just wanna keep my license and my job. The labor laws was not explained to me when I got hired. Thanks in advance

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Don't know about other facilities, but where I work? Yes, they can. They call it 'Mandate' or 'Mandation'.

If we have a call off and no one can be found to cover, one person from the previous shift gets stuck working. Company policy is they can mandate us to work another 8 hours (16 hours total in a single 24hr period), each DAY.

So If I work Mon, Tues, and Wed, and we have call-offs all three days in a row and no one can be found, they COULD theoretically mandate me to work 16 hours all three days. Normally we don't do that to one person in a row - normally we'll rotate such mandations between personnnel if poossible, but sometimes it just isn't possible. I've had weeks before where I've worked 4 16-hour days due to relief calling off.

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We have what we call "square days" When the schedule is made all nursing staff (cna and nurses) will have a 'square' marked around their shift about 4 x a month. If there is a call out you are mandated to work a double shift. Everyone knows a month in advance which days they may or may not have to stay over and you are expected to have child care, transportation or whatever arrangements made for those days in case you have to stay.

This is stressed during the hiring interview, so if a person doesn't agree with it, they don't need to accept the position. It is also highly stressed during the paper work part of the orientation. So everyone knows well in advance of the policy but people still whine about it when it happens

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Specializes in Psych, Med/Surg, LTC.
We have what we call "square days" When the schedule is made all nursing staff (cna and nurses) will have a 'square' marked around their shift about 4 x a month. If there is a call out you are mandated to work a double shift. Everyone knows a month in advance which days they may or may not have to stay over and you are expected to have child care, transportation or whatever arrangements made for those days in case you have to stay.

This is stressed during the hiring interview, so if a person doesn't agree with it, they don't need to accept the position. It is also highly stressed during the paper work part of the orientation. So everyone knows well in advance of the policy but people still whine about it when it happens

This is more fair since you can plan. There isn't the chance of getting mandated EVERY day and having no idea of how to plan for that.

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Wow, this is 7 years ago? I'm a pharmacy technician facing this problem now. Lots of call outs, Union protects them. Solution is equal mandation on everyone. What's your advice? Bear with it? something smart to do that I'm not aware off? I know it's stressed in the interview, but the amount of call outs is just crazy! like 5 callouts a week on average. Those who call out too much just get some counseling, no discipline. I mean, is everyone that sick they have to finish using their sick days?

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