Calling in for no sleep

nutella, MSN, RN · May 26, 2016

Horseshoe said:
According to this employment law attorney, not true.
This caveat into how much detail they can require:
What's Your Boss Allowed to Ask When You Call In Sick? | On Careers | US News
That said, I don't think that most employers care why you're calling in unless it's a habit that is causing problems. And I don't think that they are actually going to press people for exact details either if the employee doesn't want to give them, whether or not it is legal for them to do so.

You can quote as many questionable "sources" as you want.

Fact is that it is easy to make a mistake as a supervisor or manager when asking why somebody calls out. If you "request" information and it turns out that the employee calls out due to something that is related to the ADA you are already "in trouble".

There are situations when you have to ask for information but you have to be very specific. For example - if you have noro virus going around and somebody calls out you can ask if the person has a temp above 100F, diarrhea ,vomiting - usually there is a policy covering those events.

Or you can ask about flu symptoms if the flu is going around so you can advice the employee to stay at home according to policy and have them follow up with occupational health.

But other than that you have to be careful. I was always advised by HR not to poke around when people call out. Instead track absences, start corrective action if they exceed the max amount of unplanned absences according to policy and in some cases that leads to termination.

I did not notice people calling out more because I did not try the Spanish Inquisition.

Libby1987 · May 26, 2016

Too many years ago, our residency program switched us back and forth (whose idea was THAT?). I couldn't do nights, I was terribly messed up. I couldn't sleep and stay regular. Sleep deprived and constipated. And I didn't have experience/muscle memory to fall back on.

I'm not sure what's OP's base schedule but working to 3am Saturday morning and then back at work on Monday at 7am sounds like my old social life.

However I don't know what working til 3am has to do with OP. She was up most of the night with diarrhea, that seems to be the reason she needed to call off.

I have a question about staffing agencies. (They aren't an option for HH unless you contract for stretches of time, if we're short we get out there and help with patient care.). If a nurse calls off 2 hrs before start of shift, is it realistic to get it covered by an agency? Or is it more a budgetary issue and avoided?

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · May 26, 2016

greener22 said:
Not appropriate to call in due to lack of sleep. If we all did that, there would be noone left. Parents often are up most of the night with sick kids, on call job responsibilites or personal issues. You should think about the staff your are leaving short handed, which itself could be unsafe. The better option is go in, assess the situation with the charge nurse and MAYBE get to go home early.

I will bet the rent you are not a nurse. OP tried to adjust her sleep schedule, and could not. She would be impaired.. and knew it. She would not be leaving the facility "short-handed". Any decent facility knows how to cover call ins. As far as going home early? :roflmao:

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · May 26, 2016

Heartful said:
OK. No sympathy here. As they say, suck it up, buttercup! You are an adult, with adult responsibilities. You knew you had to work Monday morning. No excuses. Gather up your gear and get moving!

Nurses are human beings with basic needs.. like sleep and food. OP TRIED to prepare for her Monday shift.. she did not have enough time to pull it off.

I am betting ANOTHER months rent that.. you are not a nurse.

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · May 26, 2016

calivianya said:
I have had problems with insomnia my whole life, so I know how much that sucks. That being said...
I have never called in due to lack of sleep, and I never will. If I have to work in the near future, and I think there's even the slightest possibility I'm not going to sleep well, I go ahead and take 50mg of diphenhydramine, which is usually (but not always) enough to get me drowsy enough to go to sleep. If the diphenhydramine doesn't cut it, I take an Ambien. One or both of those will usually knock me out enough to sleep some.
I'm just glad diphenhydramine finally works for me. It used to treat me like an old person where I'd get restless/fidgety instead of sedated, but at some point my brain Chemistry flipped around and it finally makes me sleepy like everyone else. It sucked to take so much Ambien.

How special of you that you will never call in for lack of sleep. But you have no qualms reporting for duty under the influence of self- prescribed sleep aids.

Cactus Nurse · May 26, 2016

Quote
PP- So your solution is to make another nurse, who has likely just worked 12+ hours and is tired him/herself, stay until the OP feels ready to come in?! Would YOU like somebody doing that to you? It's not the off-going nurse's problem.
OP- I'm confused. You worked a 12 hr shift Friday that went until 3:30am, which would make it Saturday. However, you state you only had one night to get back to a 7am schedule. Saturday night and Sunday night make 2 nights to get back to a normal schedule. I honestly wouldn't be happy if a coworker called out because they were "tired" if it made the day harder for the rest of the nurses working (unless there were extenuating circumstances like being up caring for a sick child, etc.).

Well apparently I have to specify.... Late like an hour, half hour because she couldn't wake up at the time she needed to because she was so tired. As a matter of fact tonight my night nurse called me saying he woke up late showed up 45 min late, I had just worked at 12hr shift and I have my second job only 4hours later. I did not get mad at him, I didn't care because he would do the same for me if I was exhausted... the previous day he worked 16hours... So yes telling your outgoing shift you're running an hour behind, I don't see as a problem

WheresMyPen · May 26, 2016

Well it seems like you didnt call in due to no sleep it was because you were sick. That happens, unfortunately. But it is acceptable.

Cactus Nurse · May 26, 2016

canigraduate said:
Ick. The martyr brigade came out in full force on this one.
As someone who knew people who fell asleep on the drive home and died, don't you dare go to work when you are too tired to function!
There have been many studies on sleep deprivation and its effects on the body and the mind. You are putting your life in danger, and the lives of others, every time you go to work sleepy.

I actually have a co worker who used to work nights and she fell asleep driving home one morning.. she no longer works nights. luckily she was OK.... I have fallen asleep at stop lights, because of my lack of sleep, it is not safe at all!

ggrn29 · May 26, 2016

If you call in according to policy guidelines, i.e. 4 hrs before shift, it's only your business what the reason is. That being said, sleep deprivation can impair judgment as badly as drugs or alcohol.

If you make an error because you're overly tired, it will be said that you should have known better than to work in such a state.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · May 26, 2016

nutella said:
You can quote as many questionable "sources" as you want.
Fact is that it is easy to make a mistake as a supervisor or manager when asking why somebody calls out. If you "request" information and it turns out that the employee calls out due to something that is related to the ADA you are already "in trouble".
There are situations when you have to ask for information but you have to be very specific. For example - if you have noro virus going around and somebody calls out you can ask if the person has a temp above 100F, diarrhea ,vomiting - usually there is a policy covering those events.
Or you can ask about flu symptoms if the flu is going around so you can advice the employee to stay at home according to policy and have them follow up with occupational health.
But other than that you have to be careful. I was always advised by HR not to poke around when people call out. Instead track absences, start corrective action if they exceed the max amount of unplanned absences according to policy and in some cases that leads to termination. I did not notice people calling out more because I did not try the Spanish Inquisition.

So you just said yourself it is not "illegal" to ask why a person is calling out. You are talking policy, not law. "Why are you calling out?" is different from asking "well, what's wrong with you? or demanding to know additional details of an ADA protected condition. "I'm calling out because I'm ill" gives no intimate information.

BTW, US News and World Report is not exactly the National Enquirer.

Pepsimx5 · May 27, 2016

Nurses are ethically required to be fit for duty, and that includes being responsible to make sure you are fit for duty. If this happens once, you're ok, but it is your responsibility as a nurse to make sure you get the sleep you need before your shift starts.

Pepsimx5 · May 27, 2016

In your initial post I did not see information about you getting sick over the weekend, that is a different story. If you have been ill, and without sleep, and not fit for duty, then you have to call out for the safety of your patients. You do not have to give a reason for calling out. You simply call out and say " I cannot come in to work today, I have to call out." Your employer is not supposed to ask why. If they do, you just say, I can't make it in, I am not able to work today" It is personal time, an unplanned event, NOT "sick" time, or calling out sick, which it is usually mistakenly called, but simply "calling out for an unplanned event that prevents you from coming to work."