Get over California.

[Ms.PreReqs]

Aloha,

I'm new to the site and am new to the world of nursing. A few of my friends currently work for Kaiser in Oakland. I am a teacher in Oakland and live in Berkeley. For those of you who are unfamiliar to the Bay Area, this is the region of the "East Bay". Most people work in "the city" as we reference it colloquially, or San Francisco, and live in the East Bay. As you can gauge from the name chosen, I am hoping to enter said world of nursing and am currently taking prereqs in order to do so. However, there is a lot I've learned on this journey so far and I want to share my experience with you guys who are considering relocating.

Alas, I think from what I've learned on the boards so far, everyone wants to be here. I want to tell you a little bit about that reality so hopefully more people will realize why home is where you're better off.

I make below/circa 50k, average for a teacher in California. A friend who lives with me works in tech and makes below/circa the mid 100k region. Our rent is $2,600 for 1/3 of the small house we live in- before utilities, which can be high because it gets freezing here also. We share said house with two other families. From an "ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY SAVE HAWAI'I OR MANHATTAN" standpoint, the house itself is rather small. Not only that, but we were extremely lucky to even find one as the market itself is very competitive. It took months and we lost two we wanted badly in the process.

Nursing salaries are "more" in the Bay Area....KIND OF. Kind of NOT, also. It is one of the very few areas in the nation where the benefits of home ownership versus renting is financially debatable. Also, our taxes are very high. After taxes, I take home about 35K and my friend rakes in around high 80's, 90's, depending on how the STARTUP is going. That's the thing too- the industries here can be fickle. One day you're raking in the dough, the next you're unemployed. Something to think about with the lack of stability if you have a partner in tech. There also aren't nearly as many jobs as there are elsewhere. I've conducted tons of nursing informational interviews and all of the nurses I've spoken to who were new grads had to move somewhere else for a while first. Those who didn't had to wait, unemployed, paying Bay Area rent on debt, for 1-2 years.

Additionally, crime is high. This is just a fact of life here. Anecdotally though obviously close to home, my friend was physically assaulted this year by a stranger at night. The injury was bad enough that it culminated in a CT Scan and surgery. After the attack, he was in the ER for 8 hours and worked from home with a broken jaw for two months. True story. In downtown Oakland I am verbally assaulted about twice a week. Another friend of mine witnessed a stabbing in the city while out one night in a "normal" area. If you are a nurse in a peaceful community and you have dreams of making more in the Bay Area, I can promise you it isn't worth it.

It won't pan out financially and there is a huge chance you are walking away from something good. I am 30 and would LOVE to not have housemates. However, everyone I know has housemates or roommates. Two of my friends in tech make 150K and each have multiple roommates. There is a very high chance that I will NEVER own a home. I am young, productive, have good educations and good connections, and still- this may never translate into stable jobs and home ownership. This means listening to my neighbor's kids practice piano 24/7 through the walls (no offense to them, but they are beginners and besides who wants to not be able to control what they hear when they're home?), never having a dog (very common here, unfortunately), and never owning our own space.

I think people see the salaries of nurses here and think "that could be me". But there aren't tons of jobs, they are very competitive to get, and for those of us who are already here we look at transplants and think "you left WHAT again? A family? A yard? A salary commensurate to the region you call home?"

Don't just see that big number and think it's going to the bank. It's not. It's going to the landlord. There are so many things you will realize you gave up once you get here that you'll miss. I'm not saying this to say stay away from our turf. I'm saying this because I would be truly heartbroken to leave something good and realize the reality here and I don't want that for anyone.

[Wolf at the Door, BSN]

What kind of changes are happening with the union contracts?

Page 4 – For the Record

http://fortherecord.kaiserpermanente.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CNA-Bargaining-KP-Compared-with-NonKP-RN-Salaries-110917.pdf

kaiser keeps a very public record

[smxp]

thanks. what about CNA's contract with the UC system? know anything about how those negotiations are going?

[nyashan]

I lived in hayward whike working in san leandro. ..with no roomates. Living in Berkeley with 3 other roommates i believe is a choicw. Plenty of placea in bay area with. 2200 1bed with washer/dryer in unit available. A work collegue just signed with a apt with 2bed 2 bath washer dryer in unit for 2300. 3ved in Berkeley is not a bargain. We had a look on zillows last night plenty of 2 bed 2 bath with under 2e00 rent. Id say use google and research ur oprions

[RNstudent19]

Come to the Inland Empire in SoCal. Starting pay for new RN's is about ~35/hr give or take; my friends with associates have been able to find jobs without issue. $300k-$400k gets you a comfortable two story home built in the 2000's.

[Wolf at the Door, BSN]

^Inland empire is really hot.

thanks. what about CNA's contract with the UC system? know anything about how those negotiations are going?

Yeah it's online too. Just google it.

[NickiLaughs, ADN, BSN, RN]

Come to the Inland Empire in SoCal. Starting pay for new RN's is about ~35/hr give or take; my friends with associates have been able to find jobs without issue. $300k-$400k gets you a comfortable two story home built in the 2000's.

I used to live there. The insane property taxes are could add easily 500 and up a month to your mortgage payment. In Sacramento I pay 300ish a month for property taxes. I do miss it down there though.

[Missnmochi]

OP, the way that you live now is pretty much how you're going to continue to live as long as you stay in California. Anybody who tells you (or anyone else who thinks Ca $$$ is worth it...listen closely) differently is lying.

I've lived all over the country. All. Over. Including Hawai'i. So I know what I'm saying. I wasn't a traveler, I was a permanent resident in many places.

California, first and foremost, is BROKE. Just like most other states. If you want to work at the UC system, get used to the 9% off the top "pre tax" for your "pension" being taken whether or not you like it or want to save that way. That goes directly into the pockets of the present pensioners. YOU get to be the tax mule for those folks, and pray that enough people come into the system after you stay for 20 years, that they'll be a mule for you. Don't bet on that. Ca pension system is $1TRILLION underfunded.

The private hospitals like Kaiser? Forget full time. Period. EVER. You might get a chance there as a traveler, so buckle in and do your 2-3 years of indentured servitude and maybe, just maybe, they'll pick you. Those rates are high for a reason. Kaiser has the strictest, white knuckled control over their people and process and if you aren't a huge oooo-ra fan of being micromanaged, don't go there. No amount of money is worth someone up my keister 24/7.

The bigger cities are hellholes. Hot. Polluted. Filthy. Crowded. The "nice" neighborhoods, like the one I live in now and cannot wait to leave and move out...everyone has a 3000 ft lot and a 2000 sq ft house, and a 6ft fence between every single dwelling. so you get your patch of grass all to your lonesome, but you hear every single thing that goes on next door. When my neighbor talks on the phone, I hear it. You can't breathe, the background noise is ridiculous...and I live 20 min outside of Sacramento. This low vibration of the constant highway traffic....

Go outside the city. Some here have suggested Fresno or Modesto or Inland Empire....Again....hotter than hell but this time you've got gangs and crime and all around misery. California is only livable because of artificial irrigation. Now that there's a ridiculous drought...and the fires? You have pure and simple.....MISERY.

Don't let anybody tell you that the money here is so much better. The income tax is 13.5%. ON EVERYTHING. I went to the grocery store and purchased the same exact items that I did in the state I moved here from.....and I paid $45 in TAXES. I don't drink, I don't eat meat and I don't buy crap. So there ya go. Just an example of where that Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge paycheck will go.

And "cheaper" to live? Uh....no....pencil it out, folks. I may make $61/hr (with shift diff)....but 9% right off the top that I will never see again, 13.5% income tax, "fair" something or other fee $45 per check, insurance (most expensive I"ve ever seen), $50/mo to park in meth central (no choice, because ticketing is a prime revenue stream for Sac), car insurance thru the roof....and then rent. Because you WILL NEVER OWN A HOME HERE...unless you want to live in the ghetto (and my version of the ghetto was like paradise compared to the ghetto in some of California's cities)....the cheapest 2 br I found in a reasonably safe space was $1900/mo.

Now pencil all that out. OH. and I forgot. Union dues. $120/mo. And the unions do NOTHING for you for your first 9 months, but you pay into that. Even afterwards...the CNA does nothing, because you won't complain to them. You complain and rock the boat? You won't work here long. They all know each other and they'll blackball you in a microsecond. The union is a nice way to make money.

Oh, but the ratios. Well, the hospitals don't honor the law in California, and no one will make a sound. OT is anything over 8 hours. By law. Uh...nope. Not where I work. And OT? That $61/hr sounds awesome with just one extra shift a month, right? Nope. They drag your butt off the floor if you have even one minute "over". If you continue to do that...you get "talked to". Keep doing it....and they fire you. NO OVERTIME for full timers. PERIOD.

They'll tell you anything you want to hear to come on board full time. Anything. DON'T DO IT. If you are okay with living like a college kid in a frat house, come on out on a travel job after you get your solid 3 years. I can tell you that 2 years will get you places like Bakersfield. It's a closed loop of the same travel faces. Nice places like Sutter...they use travelers, but it's who you know and it's how long have you been in nursing. Two years won't get you squat.

Go towards the coast? Again...be happy living like a frat boy and maybe saving a few thousand. That's it. And get used to the crime. Everyplace else I've worked, there is an opiate problem. Not in California....nope....we have METH. Cheap and easy. The patients aren't mellow and just looking for a high...no these guys and gals are hyperviolent and will kill you for no reason at all. Tweakers are the majority of what is cramming up the ERs here. Don't get me started on the heroin junkies in every dark corner of SF.

I came here willingly...left an awesome job that paid me $38/hr. Yeah, chaotic and sometimes got the short end on staffing....but here's the skinny on this "RATIO" crap...

THe hospitals weren't gonna sit back and let the nurses get something for nothing. So that ratio you all love....try that with no tech or no CNA. Now do your work. You do your own EKGs and finger sticks and turning over rooms and stocking your own bedside carts. And getting it shoved down your throat that you have to comply with every line of the CMS rulebook because these stockholders need their payday. So you do q2 VS with insane protocols that make no sense because some guy won a lawsuit once that cost the hospital a boatload of money---and there goes "nursing" ratios and being able to do your job.

The hospitals simply took away all ancillary staff. The ones that are left? Are so overworked, they give you crap and you have to take it, because the one time you might get their help? They remember if you held their feet to the fire to do their job.

I was warned. I will take home 50% of what I make. The rest, even though a nice portion of that is "pension"...I will NEVER see again. So my tidy $61/hr turns into $30.

I made more at home.

I am thanking my lucky stars that I didn't sell my house back home---I am finishing my year here and getting the hell out. I have no idea what I was thinking, but then, I believed that whole "high pay and nurse ratios" crap too. I can't breathe, I can't sleep, I can't get anywhere without planning an HOUR in traffic to go 5 miles...and getting in to another facility is out of the question....because once you're in, and you make noises about leaving or being unhappy....there goes your opportunity to go to any other place within a 100 mile radius.

There was this idea back home that California is full of liberals and bleeding heart feel gooders. That is probably the furthest thing from the truth. I've seen and experienced nothing but aggressiveness, unfriendliness, entitled behavior and all around nasty demeanor out of everyone. Like I said, I've never seen more people get hit by cars in my life, and I"ve lived in places like Boston, Cleveland, Portland and Tampa. Huge cities...but without the entitled attitude that they get to drive 95 mph thru the city and too bad for you if you're crossing the street.

I"m not a "gosh darnit" midwesterner. I'm well traveled and I thought California would be a nice middle of the road kind of place. It's extreme in every sense of the word. It's NYC with nicer weather. If good weather is all you need...come on out. THe homeless explosion thinks the same way, just so you know.

When I go back to travel RN, I intend on taking jobs in places that don't put my health and life at risk 24/7....and that is anything SF Bay, SoCal and it's quickly becoming NorCal as well. The cliques in the facilities in NorCal are....nauseating. I thought my last facility was bad. Nothing compared to the passive aggressive viciousness in every unit I've come into contact with in my facility.

At the end of the day, folks, the OPs opening title..."Get over California" couldn't be more true. It's hellish here and the money just isn't there. The licensing in this state is a revenue stream...and most of you who have had the misfortune of one single misstep in that process and you get to do it all over again and pay all over again...welcome to California. Maybe not getting your license is God's way of giving you a 2x4 upside your head...stay home or do travel somewhere else. It's not what you think out here.

[db2xs]

Bottom line: No place is perfect so nit-picking about things doesn't really help things, in my opinion.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

The OP confuses the Bay Area with California. The Bay Area is just one city in a HUGE state - the 3rd largest state after Alaska and Texas. That said, California is not for everyone, but I am surprised at how much some people hate it.

SF Bay Area - I've lived there and agree it is way too expensive. But some people just love it there and will make financial sacrifices happily in order to live there.

LA - I lived there for almost 15 years and I loved it. But LA is becoming too crowded, congested, and expensive for me. But for a young person, there is just so much to do and see, along with fabulous weather. There are pockets of affordability in this mega sprawl. There are lots of universities and colleges, and along with entertainment and high tech, a lot of young people live here.

Orange County - not as congested and messy as LA, but with fabulous beaches; can be pricey, but can still find affordable housing. Several colleges and universities.

San Diego - still affordable, although prices are going up. I own a house here and think it is the best coastal city - best weather, friendly people, tons of outdoor recreation, and enough nightlife for the young people. Don't overlook North San Diego County, with funky beach towns like Encinitas and Leucadia, along with surfer towns like Oceanside and Carlsbad. We've got UCSD (huge medical facility) and SDSU (over 50,000 students). Some huge hospital systems: UCSD, Sharp, Scripps, Kaiser, VA Hospital, along with some smaller hospitals like Palomar and Tri City.

Palm Springs is quite metropolitan and still affordable. Yes, it is in the desert, but everyone has air conditioning. And it is a dry heat, unlike the miserable humidity of the East and South.

Lake Tahoe area - both California and Nevada sides. Well, you can't beat this area for physical beauty and recreation opportunities. The Nevada side has both Carson City and Reno for city life and Nevada has no state income tax.

Since I know California well, I will write a bit about the interior cities here. Go to Google maps and pull up a map of California.

San Joaquin Valley South to North (also referred to as Central Valley) is farm country. Most of the nation's fruits, veggies , nuts, and rice are grown here, along with a lot of dairy and beef cattle.

Bakersfield – about 400,000 people. 2 hour drive from LA. Very affordable. Has Cal State Bakersfield.

Fresno metro area – 1 million people, 3 hour drive to LA, 4 hour drive to SF, 1.5 hour drive to Yosemite (east) or Central California Coast with beaches and wine country (west). Very affordable with lots of beautiful parks and new housing. Big enough to have everything except for the super high end shopping like Neiman Marcus, etc. Has Fresno State, so get some of the college town benefits. I was very impressed with Fresno.

Merced – about 100,000 people . Large migrant worker population. New Univ of Calif campus – Merced, so benefits of college town.

Modesto (pop 200,000) and Stockton (pop 300,000) – good size cities close to each other, only 1 hour drive from SF. In fact, a lot of people live there and commute to SF/Silicon Valley for work.

Sacramento (pop 500,000) is just a one hour drive from SF. It is the capital of California and is booming. Prices are going up as people are moving here from SF and Silicon Valley. Univ of Calif Davis, a fantastic school, is here, along with Sacramento State, so the cultural benefits of a college town. Davis is a lovely town, too.

Placerville – lovely town (10,000 people) that is really a suburb of Sacramento. It is a quick 30 minute drive due east of Sacramento, in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas, just a 1 hour drive to Lake Tahoe for skiing, boating, etc. Placerville is booming as people are "discovering" it.

Redding – 3 hours north of Sacramento, 100,000 people. That's big enough to have all the necessities. Very affordable. 4 hour drive to SF, daily flights to SF are 1 hour. 2.5 hours to Sacramento. You can be in Oregon in less than 2 hours. Beautiful area in foothills of mountains. Main industry is tourism, then healthcare. Mt. Shasta, Lake Shasta, Whiskeytown Lake, Mt. Lassen, Trinity Lakes, Sacramento River has 30 miles of trails on each side for walking, cycling, etc. Fishing, boating, hiking, camping, skiing. Lots of healthcare because it is the healthcare hub for far northern California up to the Oregon border. As you can tell, I really like Redding. :)

Chico and Oroville – a bit southeast of Redding (1.5 hours), also around 100,000 people. Chico is a big college town (Chico State has 50,000 students) with some beautiful parks and lots of artsy areas. Also very affordable. Chico is flat and Oroville is in rolling hill country, quite lovely. Like Redding, within few hours drive of Sacramento and SF for weekend getaways.

Pluses of Central Valley

1.Affordable

2.You will get awesome fresh fruits, veggies and nuts – most of the nation's supply is grown here

3.People there are like the Midwest – that kind of down to earth friendliness

4.Mild winters

5.No issues with wild fires

6.Great country music

Minuses

1.Summers are hot. However, it is a dry heat, with little humidity. You will have A/C, so who cares?

2.Air quality near the agricultural areas in the south part of the San Joaquin Valley can be problematic if you are sensitive (dust in the air, etc). Didn't bother me, though.

3.Central Valley is politically "red, " with the exception of Sacramento and Chico. I don't care about my patients' politics, but if it really bothers you, well then not the place for you. However, because of the outrageous home prices in SF and LA, more and more people are moving from there to the Central Valley in search of affordable housing.