I'm a graduate nurse who is also 31 weeks pregnant; I'm interested in L&D nursing after I have my baby. We have chosen to go to a birthing center to have our first child; they required that we take childbirth classes and I liked the idea of my husband being involved with the birthing process, so we decided to choose the Bradley Method to help us.
When I initially spoke with the instructor, she seemed excited to have a 'nurse' in the class, and would occasionally ask me questions in front of the class as a 'nurse' authority figure. She claimed in class to state the Bradley Method supports any choices the couple makes, but was clearly biased towards no interventions whatsoever during birth. She was rather forceful in her opinions. However, none of the information was particularly detrimental until yesterday...
Maybe having the class on 06/06/06 got to her, but she seemed to do a complete 180. She was talking about birthing in a hospital, and trying to have a natural birth (ie, refusing to wear the hospital gown, refusing IVs, refusing to be NPO, etc) and told these horror stories in class, and how the nurse will come in and try to boss you around, but that you are there to be served, and that you should come into the hospital with the following mindset:
"the hospital is a hotel, and the nurses are the maids. The only thing they are responsible for is fetal heart rate, and for fixing up the room. They have no autonomy. Think of them as maids, and tell them what services you want."
She also said that when the patients are given the consents, they should tear the first page off and staple it to their birth plan and hand that in instead. She said that nurses just laugh at birth plans anyway.
I literally saw red!!! I was so angry that I didn't trust myself to speak, and basically withdrew from participating in the rest of the class. A few of the students asked me during the break about what she was saying, and said they didn't agree with nurses being equated with maids in the hospital.
At this point, I don't feel like ever going back to that class (we still have 4 more left). We have the workbook and I still feel the principles of the method are sound, but I feel that going back to that instructor and that class would validate what she said. I feel like I did that tacitly by not speaking up in class. I am drafting an e-mail message to her that I'm thinking about sending to the entire class (we have a listserv set up)...
Mostly this is just a vent, but I would be interested in hearing how others would have responded to this, or experiences with Bradley families in the hospital...
women whose in labor on NPO? well.... I think a sip of wter should be allowed to boost pt energy, I cant imagine the pains during L&D.wow! its an intractable pain, then we induce labor by giving pitocin:angryfire OOHHH lala thats another dilemma to pt. but ofcourse we have to assist our pt, if the progress of labor is going smoothly or theres a complication arising in it.
I'm sorry. In my post I said I was NPO at the hospital but I wasn't really. I was allowed sips of water, just no food. Sorry for the misinformation.
I trained to be Bradeley instructor but did not finish my certification with them and chose another method. I am now graduating with my BSN and going on for my MSN with the CNM/WHNP.
The comment this instructor made was TOTALLY out of line. How rude and disrespectful. I myself have worked with Bradley instructors who have taken the opposite approach: that the nurses are the people who RUN that room, and that it's important to work as a team with them. I think it is important NOT to return to her class and tell her why, then contact AAHCC. However, I don't think they will be terribly sympathetic. Who knows, she may recant and maybe you can give al ittle talk about what nurses really do to your class. It doesn't seem like you were the only on e who took offense to this comment.WhatAAHCC should really do is find you another instructor and pay the tab.
I am new to this forum. I've been reading with interest a number of fascinating threads, but this one struck a chord.
If you are up to it, Merovingienne, you could go back to the class and attempt to engage her in a dialogue about what she has said. It would be informative for us as nurses to know how she came to hold these beliefs and opinions. Is it hearsay, is it direct experience, etc. There is clearly a lot of anger and misinformation here. This is a great opportunity to learn as well as educate. She could become an advocate for nurses if she is armed with information based in reality.
When I was an OB nurse, my colleagues and I would have a moment or two of indignation when the birthplan was presented. We'd roll our eyes and guess when the C-section would happen. We would throw up our hands in bewilderment when a mother wanted everything "natural" (up to the point of bringing her own wooden spoon to eat with) and then tacked on at the end would be, "if it's a boy, we want him circumcised". (Natural for me, but my son is another story!)
The stories go on and on... Anyway, as the years went on, I came to a more generous point of view. I began to see that birthplans were a way of trying to navigate the unknown and mysterious waters of a birthing culture that can be frightening and confusing. I got to the point where I would praise the mother for giving so much thought to what she wanted, no matter how wacky or insulting to me it might seem.
What I am trying to say is, there is a kernel of truth to what your instructor is saying. Some nurses come on like know-it-alls who possess the oracle of truth . I had one myself 30-some years ago when my son was born. I believe these days are mostly over, but the tales linger on.
You could say something like, "I've been thinking a lot about what you said last week. I realize I had some questions I want to ask you about that" and take it from there. It's worth a try--to create peace rather than fan the flames. If she continues to maintain her position and spout venom and generalities about a specific group of people (isn't that what true prejudice is?), then do what you gotta do. I hope you will keep us informed about how this goes.
I'm a graduate nurse who is also 31 weeks pregnant; I'm interested in L&D nursing after I have my baby. We have chosen to go to a birthing center to have our first child; they required that we take childbirth classes and I liked the idea of my husband being involved with the birthing process, so we decided to choose the Bradley Method to help us.
When I initially spoke with the instructor, she seemed excited to have a 'nurse' in the class, and would occasionally ask me questions in front of the class as a 'nurse' authority figure. She claimed in class to state the Bradley Method supports any choices the couple makes, but was clearly biased towards no interventions whatsoever during birth. She was rather forceful in her opinions. However, none of the information was particularly detrimental until yesterday...
Maybe having the class on 06/06/06 got to her, but she seemed to do a complete 180. She was talking about birthing in a hospital, and trying to have a natural birth (ie, refusing to wear the hospital gown, refusing IVs, refusing to be NPO, etc) and told these horror stories in class, and how the nurse will come in and try to boss you around, but that you are there to be served, and that you should come into the hospital with the following mindset:
"the hospital is a hotel, and the nurses are the maids. The only thing they are responsible for is fetal heart rate, and for fixing up the room. They have no autonomy. Think of them as maids, and tell them what services you want."
She also said that when the patients are given the consents, they should tear the first page off and staple it to their birth plan and hand that in instead. She said that nurses just laugh at birth plans anyway.
I literally saw red!!! I was so angry that I didn't trust myself to speak, and basically withdrew from participating in the rest of the class. A few of the students asked me during the break about what she was saying, and said they didn't agree with nurses being equated with maids in the hospital.
At this point, I don't feel like ever going back to that class (we still have 4 more left). We have the workbook and I still feel the principles of the method are sound, but I feel that going back to that instructor and that class would validate what she said. I feel like I did that tacitly by not speaking up in class. I am drafting an e-mail message to her that I'm thinking about sending to the entire class (we have a listserv set up)...
Mostly this is just a vent, but I would be interested in hearing how others would have responded to this, or experiences with Bradley families in the hospital...
The woman is an idiot. What more can be said? We can always hope that she needs a nurse someday and can get only a "maid". And I'm not putting maids down. Maids are wonderful. But they are not nurses.
Regarding being NPO during labor -- I stayed home with both my births until the last possible minute, so it really wasn't an issue. I woke up in labor and was not in the least bit hungry. But my birth instructor encouraged us to eat, especially carbs, during early labor because we would need the energy later. I did manage to choke down a can of liquid meal replacer at about 9:00 AM and I was so incredibly grateful for that at around 1:00 PM after 45 minutes of pushing. I wonder if arriving at the hospital early and being NPO for hours and hours doesn't lead to more C-sections. Labor is exhausting.
I guess the poiint I am trying to make is interventions lead to more interventions. Natural childbirth advocates believe this and so do I.
The woman is an idiot..... We can always hope that she needs a nurse someday and can get only a "maid".
Why would "we" wish such a hateful thing?
Maybe some of the "we" here can always wish that one day she has a kind, caring nurse who shows her that she is more than just a maid and allowes her to gain a newfound respect for the profession in general.
I could guess as to why she feels this way...bad experiences, both personal and that of her clients, is probably a major factor. Unfortunately (god forbit I say it here) some nurses just plain stink. They have bad bedside manor, no tact, little compassion, limited knowledge as to what they're doing and why and masked insecurities because of that (any or all of that combination), and just average skills. Many have control issues. Many feel threatened by an educated patient. No, not all, and not most, but many (and if you ask me, if you have 3 such nurses at a large hospital, that is 3 too many). I think we should be more angry at those nurses than the people who are negatively affected by those nurses.
I could go on with stories and stories about how I've been mistreated, insulted, ignored, miseducated, and borderline abused by nurses, but there's no real need to do that. I will, however, point out, that had I not also had many positive experiences with nurses as well, I may have had a very skewed view of the profession as well.
I'm not justifying her tactics. Yes, she was wrong to portray nursing as such. Yes, she should change her ways. yes, there are other ways of empowering women, and yes, I think it's sad that she sees us this way.
I did a paper for my nursing theory course entitled "How cultural competence can improve the communication process with patients utilizing the Bradley Method of natural childbirth"
We have had several negative experiences with the local Bradley coach and the patients she had taught. This Bradley coach has had a rather negative attitude towards the health care team. She teaches that the hospital, doctors, and nurses are the root of all evil, that all the poor outcomes in birth are as a result of the evil interventions hospitals impose on their patients. The patients come in with a very negative attitude and appear to be looking for a conflict.
One of the recent patients ascribing to the Bradley method would not allow anything to be done. They just stayed in the room, refused any monitoring, or interventions. One of the few times they allowed monitoring, the baby had a prolonged decel came back to base line and they took the monitors off and went walking.
It has been a very bad experience for all the staff with the Bradley patients. Nobody will want to take a Bradley patient here in the future.
The intentions of Bradley method are good, but allow no room for deviation.
I did a paper for my nursing theory course entitled "How cultural competence can improve the communication process with patients utilizing the Bradley Method of natural childbirth"
We have had several negative experiences with the local Bradley coach and the patients she had taught. This Bradley coach has had a rather negative attitude towards the health care team. She teaches that the hospital, doctors, and nurses are the root of all evil, that all the poor outcomes in birth are as a result of the evil interventions hospitals impose on their patients. The patients come in with a very negative attitude and appear to be looking for a conflict.
One of the recent patients ascribing to the Bradley method would not allow anything to be done. They just stayed in the room, refused any monitoring, or interventions. One of the few times they allowed monitoring, the baby had a prolonged decel came back to base line and they took the monitors off and went walking.
It has been a very bad experience for all the staff with the Bradley patients. Nobody will want to take a Bradley patient here in the future.
The intentions of Bradley method are good, but allow no room for deviation.
You describe the exact same situation we experienced where I used to work. It was a birth center housed on the campus of a hospital, a pretty novel concept 18 years ago! Most patients were midwife patients, with some physicians, also. Most of our patients were very well educated, well informed, and well prepared for childbirth. They came in with detailed birth plans which we made every effort to facilitate. All seemed well until a new Bradley instructor came along. Her clients came in with the militant "we vs. them" attitude, convinced that the staff existed to ruin their birth experience. After months of trying to work things out with the instructor and her clients, we were ready to tear our hair out. (The instructor refused to come into our facility to meet with us or explain her philosophy and teaching.) It got so bad that our midwives considered refusing to care for patients who attended this instructor's classes.
Our ultimate solution was to send one of our own nurses to the classes necessary to become certified as a Bradley instructor. Our docs and midwives informed their patients who wanted Bradley preparation that our nurse's class was the one they should take. I can't begin to tell you what a difference it made in the satisfaction of our patients and staff! The other instructor eventually faded away, at least from our facility.
Not to defend the instructor the dialod she had with you is unexcuseable- however not all Bradley instructors are that insensitive/ or misrepersenting to the nursing profession.
My bradley instructor had a very good relationshi[ with the nurses, the midwives and the local hospital. She did also stress the natural- but also informed us of the what ifs and the pros and cons. And trying to find whaty would be best based on the least harm done.
I need to tell people that the birth educator's attitude reflects that of Dr Bradly himself. I worked on the only unit that he still had priviledges. He is not delivering babies anymore.
I saw him scream at patients that requested pain relief--even a local to repair the third degree laceration that had happened. (This was, of course, the mom's fault) He refused to allow NB recussitation on a baby born with Apgar of 1! This child was to be put to breast-he would get better, and the mom had to nurse to release the placenta! This child was taken to the warmer, recussitated and sent to the Level III nursery. The placenta came out on its own
I could go on for days, but I think you get my point.
The sad part is that his method is an excellent method of childbirth if one recognizes that not all mom/babies have the perfect labor/delivery. Too many things can happen too fast in OB. These things affect both mom and baby, as well as family. It is very selfish to deny excellent care in order to have a "wonderful experience".
My experience with Bradley instructors has been negative and VERY similar to the original poster's. The above paragraph reflects my attitude to a T. I am a NICU nurse who goes to "bad" deliveries and according to my Bradley friends, any bad delivery is attributable to intervention.
We had a mom once who was a homebirth transfer for mec., lock herself in the loo with her doula, delivered babe on the commode. Eventually, security got the door off the hinges and babe could be resuscitated (Apgars of 0,2) Mom and doula were congratulating themselves on their intervention free delivery. Baby ended up vented on the cooling blanket. My Bradley friend's response, "Well, if her baby was going to be brain damaged anyway, she could have stayed home for a better birth experience"
I was so angry that I didn't trust myself to speak, and basically withdrew from participating in the rest of the class. A few of the students asked me during the break about what she was saying, and said they didn't agree with nurses being equated with maids in the hospital.
adnstudent2007
61 Posts
I'm sorry. In my post I said I was NPO at the hospital but I wasn't really. I was allowed sips of water, just no food. Sorry for the misinformation.