Bordeline illegal interviewing process hospitals are getting away with n this economy

texastaz · May 15, 2009

Please forgive me for not being up on the latest thing with law and hiring practices. I do know things change all the time, the definition and the criteria and state vs federal law. Burden of proof is the most difficult is cases such as this. -------- My time, gas and hope- plus having being taken for? Well - to each their own I know I don't like getting burned. Bad questions are Red Flag and need to be dealt with wisely. Best wishes.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · May 15, 2009

Hospitals are getting away with "murder" in this economy. O.k. so I am so beyond flustered and I am hoping for some feedback or any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am a new graduate (May 2008)..I waited to look for a job, since I was pregnant my last semester in nursing school... now it's impossible to get a job.. I have been applying for jobs since January. The only interview (1 repeat I have had 1 interview and applied for more jobs than I can count) was from my nursing school where I did my clinical and I came across (1.) I have also come across (2.) and (3). too many times in the five months I have been applying for jobs.
(1.) Illegal questions during interview
(2.) Stating jobs that they will only hire internal candiates causing a great waste of time for external candiates: applications can take many hours
(3.) Treating job applicants like dirt... not returning phone calls and be down right rude!
Please share your experiences and give me some advice, please!!
Here are some of illegal questions I was asked during my interview, which made me feel very uncomfortable and of course caused me to interview poorly!
What are ages of your children, what does your husband do for a living, where does he work, where do you live, do you have family support? By the way... I called the HR department and told them what happen and they said that they would try and get me another interview in other department and they have told me no openings...I have been calling every month and keep telling me to call back! This is the hospital where I would be considered an internal candidate!

Actually, #2 and 3 are not illegal. Not only that, in a bad job market, they are the norm. #2 especially is not illegal. A lot of hospitals allow internal applicants first choice. Its a way of retaining people. Their attitude is, let the internal candidate go to Unit A, the one they prefer........and fill in the vacancy left on unit B with outside candidates. Its a very effective way to reward seniority.

#3, well, lol, in other careers, thats been the norm for the past 10 years. There are entire books on when to call and follow up on interviews, how often and when to call HR people. Its a science within itself. Having phone calls ignored by HR people is the norm. If you are not the flavor of the day, you will have to wait. They are in no rush to fill the positions.

And today, a lot of HR people are.........IDK, sort of thumbing their nose at RNs while they interview job candidates. For so long we had the upper hand and they felt.......put out......by having to compete for us. Now that they dont have to compete for us, there is some "tic for tak" going on.

I recently left the travel nursing field. I had close to six different job interviews in my home state lined up before I even got here. One hospital was motivated to hire me (actually, the one I ended up at) and offered me the job on the spot. They allowed me one week to decide though, so I finished out my interviews. Another hospital told me they wanted to hire me but had to complete their interview process with all candidates first. They said they wanted me to come to the hospital in 3 weeks for a follow up (and went out of their way to imply not to call, show up in person). I told them I wasnt willing to wait 3 weeks, needed an answer by (fill in the blank with the date the first hospital gave me to decide by) and planed on being employeed within the week.

Whoa. First there was panic on their end. They scrambled to try to decide if they could "just hire me". Called me the next day and left this pompus messge that "We cant rush through our interview process for one candidate, but the manager has stated you are her first choice at this juncture. Could you possibly take a vacation and tell the other hospital you need more time?". Five minutes after that phone call, I was on the phone with the one who had actually offered a job and accepted. Then, two weeks later..........the hospital that wanted me to wait called and said they were offering the job. They left a message for me to call and set up a time to come in. I was busy with orientation and stuff so I didnt get back to them to tell them I was already working.

Two days later, another message. "We have decided to hire more critical care nurses instead of M/S. So the position you were hired for is being terminated. We can fill a M/S position anytime with anyone, so we want to concentrate on higher quality nurses right now."

Yep, thats word for word what message they left me. I saved it and listened to it with a few friends cause I knew they wouldnt believe me.

Now, this is my question. Do you believe for a second, when they offered me a job and told me to come in, they didnt know they were going to hire someone else? Yeah, they knew. And, they were so embarassed I picked someone else over them, they tried to sabotage things for me. Definately an attempt to thumb their noses at me.

Now, if that isnt dirty tactics, I dont know what is. Thing is, take it in stride, remember the facility for when things get better for us, and dont go to them when hospitals are once again begging for help.

RNperdiem, RN · May 15, 2009

The title of the thread made me wonder if waterboarding was involved.

TeeTee,RN · May 15, 2009

New Grad,

I am also a new grad. I posted my frustration on https://allnurses.com/georgia-nurses/atlanta-area-nurses-390038.html. I graduated in Dec. 2008. I had applied to every hospital within an hour away. I was frustrated, disillusioned and broke. Then I decided to be more assertive. I called two of the hospitals I had applied online with and spoke with the HR/nurse recrutier. The first one talked with me for about 10 minutes. I explained my frustration to her and she was very nice. She then asked me which area I was most interested in since I had applied for every residency position listed. I had about 8 positions pending with my application. I told her ICU was my preferrence and she said, "I will print out your application and resume and make sure you get one of the interviews for the ICU residencies." I was very excited. So I called another hospital I had applied to asked them if they would please print my application and resume out and send it to the floor managers. She was just as nice and said she would send it that day. Apparently she did, because the next week a floor manager from hospital #2 called and offered me an interview. I went and got the job. So, my advice to all my fellow new grads; be more assertive, attempt to stand out from the hundreds of other new grad applicants. Call HR and follow up with your applications. It will pay off, I am living proof.

I know how you are feeling. I was very disappointed too, but keep at it...something will happen. Good luck.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · May 15, 2009

part of it you can blame on the economy - we are not replacing many people who leave. Hope things change for you soon.

Jolie, BSN · May 15, 2009

Handling poor interview questions is difficult for any candidate, especially a new grad who is inexperienced in interviewing, easily intimidated or desperately in need of a job.

It is inappropriate for an interviewer to ask about a candidate's marital status or children. If an interviewer asks such a question, the appropriate response is something like this, "I would like to discuss my education, experience and professional qualifications for this position. It would be inappropriate to discuss my personal life in this setting." This is a difficult answer to give. Practice it.

Interviewers take this route for a few reasons. Some are hoping to get you to discuss your personal life so that they can "evaluate" your flexibility and the likelihood that you will call out for family reasons. Others are trying to push you and see if you react appropriately by calmly asserting yourself and refusing to answer inappropriate questions. I don't think much of interviewers who do either of these things, and think they are unethical, but I know it is done.

Finally, keep in mind that if you even casually mention your spouse and/or children, you have made them fair game. It is difficult for many of us NOT to mention that we prefer a certain shift due to childcare or your spouse's employment, or that we became interested in OB when we had our own children, but if you make a reference to your family, you have made them fair game for the interviewer's questions.

For example, if you graduated last year, and took time off to have a baby, don't say so. If you have a gap in employment or schooling due to childbearing, simply state that you had personal maters that demanded your attention during that time, but they are now resolved so you can devote your full attention to your new job.

deleteaccount · May 15, 2009

i'll probably get a lot of flak for this post, but here goes....

this is targeted to new grads and/or nurses entering a new area. the questions they ask about your life/family etc. are not wrong or illegal. nms often want to get a sense of who you are and how well you may fit into the existing group. it's along the lines of "tell me about you."

stop--i can't stress this enough--stop whining to the recruiter about how bad your interview went, how your feelings are hurt, and how you expect to be treated. these recruiters speak regularly to the nms and will pass this attitude perception on to the nms. you want your recruiter to work with and for you. instead of putting on the bright shiny face to only the nm, do it for the recruiter as well. follow up with the recruiter with a hand written note or email saying thank you for your time. after your interview do the same with the nm. if the job isn't offered to you simply ask the recruiter, did you get any feedback about how i did in the interview? is there something i could improve on for the next one?

nursing schools fail in preparing nurses for interviews/resume writing and such. every other industry has these simple standards and accepted interview techniques.

in reading some of these posts, i fear many of you have already been labeled by the recruiter as trouble.

and for the record i do know of what i'm writing about. i'm a 12yr rn and did work as a nurse recruiter in a major medical system.

NEWGRADNURSE75 · May 15, 2009

Denver RN921,

Thanks. I wish I knew this before I interviewed, I would of been more at ease. I am confident about my skills, but I am always afraid of being judged during the interview process.

Denver RN, I have a question for you...what is the correct follow up process for interviews...i.e. I applied for job..when should I call to follow up..? I had an interview, should I email or send letter to interviewer and within what time frame? Can I call the hiring manager after an interview or is this a big, no no?

NEWGRADNURSE75 · May 15, 2009

Jolie,

Thanks for info. I will def. use your advice for the next interview!

Teacher Sue · May 15, 2009

Two years ago, I did not have enough applicants to fill all of my available positions. This year I interviewed six candidates for one opening. Two of these I knew five minutes into the interview I did not want them. The other four were all good candidates who I would love to have working on my unit. Since I cannot hire all of them, I need to make a choice based on their applications, cover letters, and a one hour interview. It is not an easy process for a manager either.

I do ask about families, hobbies and other interests if the applicant brings them up first. I am not trying to find out any illegal information, I am trying to show an interest in the person and put him or her at ease.

I will hire a qualified internal candidate before an external one. An internal candidate already knows hospital policies and requires less orientation. These people have already shown loyalty to the organization, and deserve our loyalty in return.

It sometimes takes several weeks to make a decision about who you want to hire. Interviews are scheduled at the applicant's convenience and may be scheduled over an extended period of time. I want to give each applicant an equal chance, so I do not make my decision until I have met with all of them. A thank you note after the interview and one follow up phone call let me know you are interested. Calling every day wastes my time and can get annoying. This can make it less likely you will be hired.

Above all, I hire for attitude. I will hire a new grad over an experienced nurse solely on the basis of the attitude that I perceive. Some of the questions our hospital uses are formulated to help identify negative attitudes. And believe me, those attitudes do come across in the interview. Perhaps the OP should think about whether or not her frustration with finding a job is coming across as a negative attitude.

Please don't think that hospitals are deliberately trying to frustrate you. Health care organizations have been affected even more than some other types of institutions in these economic times, and no one is offering us a bail out. We are trying to hire the best people we can find to meet our staffing needs, and provide care to our patients.

deleteaccount · May 15, 2009

"what is the correct follow up process for interviews?"

ask the recruiter and the nm how they want you to follow up. if they give you the standard--don't call us we'll call you line; ask for a business card (if they have email), send an email about a week later.

"i applied for job...when should i call to follow up".

give it about a week and then call recruiter and ask the status of your application. ask if the position is still open and if not, ask if you can be considered for a different one. again ask, how can i follow up with you? stress to them that you are not just looking for a job, but rather state to them why you'd like to work at that facility.

go easy on the demands too. i heard more new grads say they only want to work er, icu, l&d etc. that is a huge turn off to nms who manage a med-surg floor. those nms may ask you what your future goals are. here is a huge tip...even if you see yourself in the icu in the future...tell that nm your goals for the next couple of yrs are to gain experience, to learn your craft as an rn. every med-surg nm is wondering in the back of his/her mind if a new grad will work there for only a few months and move on. once you land that first job, please let me know!

good luck, keep your chin up!

Aneroo, LPN · May 15, 2009

I agree! When I recently interviewed for an OR position, I was asked how I left about skills, and if I felt that was a big part of my practice. I said "I do like doing skills, but since I've worked as a school nurse I haven't gotten to do many. I wouldn't cry if I didn't get to start an IV tomorrow". Reason asking- many new grads enter wanting skills, skills, skills! Many have the idea that they start out in the OR, do skills and then go to CRNA school. Since asking this questions they've cut down on their turnover rate since they're able to weed out those people (and redirect them to the ICU so they can get the experience they need for CRNA educ).