Before you join...

midinphx, BSN · Oct 8, 2010

I have to second your motion. Too many people seem to ask "what is in it for me?"

Wrong question. I joined the Air Force in May after 14 years of civilian nursing. I was just amazed at how many hours I'm spending at work or work related things. Plus, family has to really support the decision. I am so far away from home than at home. 5 weeks at COT (Air Force commissioned officer training). I go to my duty station and got to work. I deploy in February 2011 for 6 months. Then I got 2 days notice that I needed to be back in Alabama for 7 weeks for another class. I'm also going to be in a 3 week class in Baltimore in January.

When I'm a nurse, I work 36 hours as a nurse one week and alternately 48 hours the next. Plus extra activities and meetings. And yes, keep your fitness scores up on your own time.

I love being a nurse and I love being in the military. There are amazing opportunities that I would never had if I was not in. But if a person is coming in for the sweet life... look elsewhere.

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Oct 9, 2010

Agree

iToniai · Oct 14, 2010

I agree, I haven't checked this forum in a long time but I happen to stumble here today. For those who remember my posting before joining the army. Here is just a brief description of how I feel about my decision to join the army, active duty.

I'm a direct commission myself, I came in with having my RN license for a year; I gave up a wonderful salary because I wanted more clinical experience and I thought since I know I wanted to specialize in a certain type of nursing joining the army would get me there quicker...WRONG. What your recruiter don't tell you is 9/10 times you will have to complete at least a year to 18 months on a med/surg floor before you can get into a specialty course that the army offers (i.e. L&D, OR, ICU, mental health); essentially in the civilian world it would've taken the same amount of time to be able to move into a specialty area. Clinically I feel stagnate right now; I'm not learning anything. I see more complacency among my co-workers in the army than when I was in civilian nursing. I've never see so many incidents of organs being nipped by residents during surgery. I can't count the amount of time that I've had to initiate patient advocacy consults since working at this hospital. Basically all I do for my 12hrs when I'm at work is pass out narcotics; I worked at a couple of civilian hospitals before joining the army and I've never known it to be okay for a patient to have a dilaudid PCA but can also get IV push morphine and Percocet at the same time. But that's a normal occurrence at the hospital I work at. I know not all army facility are the same but I'm so turned off by army nursing I would not recommend anyone joining, unless you truly understand what your getting into.

For people like myself who knew nothing about the military please keep in mind that your not "off" even on your day off; I've been called in on numerous occasions to come in to work on my day off, so I can't plan my life accordingly. You are still a soldier first, so you will be expected to go to training that have nothing to do with being a nurse. DON'T believe your recruiter when he says passing the PT test doesn't matter, IT DOES...loans will not be paid off without that (if that was part of your incentive to come in) the same goes for going to one of the specialty courses. And God help you if your head nurse or someone with a higher rank on their chest doesn't like you, they will make sure to be spiteful and hold you back from PCSing, submitting course packets, or pretty much anything that can further your career. It's happened to me and other LT's I've been around since joining. You better know how to hop, skip, and jump the way they want you to.

Of course there are people who love this lifestyle. I wish I can say that I'm just one of the few who just don't like it but after almost two years of being in the army I've seen a lot of unhappy nurses, especially LT's. Please really think about it before joining. Myself and a couple of other army nurses that I am working with are taking graduate courses without the army help so that we will have at least something to show other than hostility after 3-4 years in the army.

jerrylundergard · Oct 15, 2010

Of course it couldnt be all rosy!

Ive had sickle cell pt with dilaudid pca with basil rate or 2 or 4 mg per hour and iv morphine push q 2-3 hrs. Was told by attending team to push narcs on that patient even when they were borderline hypotensive!

People get stuck in my hospital on the floors for years too. I happened to be a pretty decent butt kisser and never call in sick and am basically a yes man that does good customer service. I also get my work done on time and clock out when Im supposed to. My DON let me transfer to the CVICU after 12 months on my floor.

Other nurses that know way more than me and have more experience are denied to the ICU left and right. They usually make waves, late, call out, slow, not great customer service or something else. If you make your DONS life tough they arent going to help you. Heck, I even got lucky, other nurses like me on other floors got blocked by their DONS even when they were good. I think my DON just had a heart and all the yes mam stuff I did for her just lead to her not being able to block my request even though I was her best workhorse.

So the blocks happen in civilian nursing too. Just I guess what sucks for you is as AD Army a block would be pretty claustraphobic! Nursing to me is a game of survivor, you always want to have as many friends and be on best terms with ALL of your coworkers. That usually means sucking it up and bitting that toungue and trying to put on a smile...

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2010

I have to agree with Dee that you need to look to see if military nursing is for you. Joining the military is like accepting a job anywhere you need to know what you are getting into. As far as getting into a speciality area you will not always be able to get in one in the civilian world either. As a nurse with 10 years of civilian nursing experience before going on active duty. I seen more younger nursing in speciality areas in the Army then in civilian hospitals.

As far as a head nurse or someone in administration making your life hell that too can happen in the civilian world. With the diffuculities of new grads getting jobs you are going to see more nurses join the military then would have before and some are going to be unhappy.

Yes, there is training and other duties that you have to do in the miltary that you would not have to in civilian nursing, but if you want to advance in your career in civilian world you must also do some things outside of normal nursing duties.

Also part of the problem is that some nursing schools are not giving students a true reality of what nursing is like. One good example of this was at a major university I was attending in their RN-BSN program. The students in the regular BSN program were told that they would be in management and not on the floor. I have seen this in civilian & military nursing that until you grow as a person and a nurse you will be unhappy in the profession.

Dee, sorry to hear that your time in the Army is not going well for you. But from most of the LT's & junior CPTs that I have been associated with they are not having the same bad experience as you. If you are not learning anything with only a couple of years experince then you need to reevaluate your desire to be a nurse. Everyday I learn something new in nursing even if it increases my knowledge of a basic skill that I have used since I started nursing.

As far as the pain medications yes I have seen PCA's, IV push meds and oral meds in the civilian world; not common but I have seen it. Remember we are treating a different type of patient then the general public.

I do not know why you have been unable to go to a speciality course but have you done what you need to do ie pass your PT test, gotten good OER's etc.? Could the reason that you have not been able to go to the course, PCS etc. is that you are not doing what needs to be done to appear to your superiors that you are a good nurse & soldier? You might need to look deep inside to find the answers. Is it the Army or are you not happy being a nurse. I am not saying all of your problems are yours in the making; some could be your commands. Remember you are the only one who can control your career either military or civilian.

Cursed Irishman · Oct 15, 2010

DON'T believe your recruiter when he says passing the PT test doesn't matter, IT DOES...loans will not be paid off without that (if that was part of your incentive to come in) the same goes for going to one of the specialty courses.

I'm voting this is the problem. Who'da thought the army would put an emphasis on physical fitness? :rolleyes:

just_cause, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2010

cursed +1 on that. I always see the threads on people worrying about 'passing' the test.. the worrying should be on 'maxing' the test out. I'm worried about a PR problem... people should realize this prior to joining, need to change up the image a bit.

TripleM33 · Oct 15, 2010

To continue on what I was saying previously,

The reason that I am most disappointed with Navy Nursing is not because of any of the above. Those issues are just things that I commonly see people becoming unhappy over. The real disappointment came with the realization that no matter what I do in a military sense, I will always be second-rate, and never truly respected as a commissioned officer. At least, that is how it is in the Navy, where there is a huge distinction between staff corps and line officers. That last point I made is why I will not remain in active duty - NOT because I can't hack it. I am one of the most positive and go-getter types that you will ever meet. The problem is that it doesn't matter if I someday am given the honor to become a Commander in the Navy Nurse Corps (O5), I will always be disrespected either covertly or overtly simply because I am "just a nurse." This last point makes all the hardships and nonsense completely not worth it. There is no pride, no honor, and no esprit de corps. I still try to be the best Naval Officer that I can be, despite all of the enlisted and other officers not taking me seriously. I really do strive to maintain professional bearing, a sharp uniform, and outstanding PRT scores (hey, nurse officers can be physically fit too).

Case in point - did really well on my PRT. The enlisted folks were AMAZED. That is not surprising, considering most nurse corps officers are indeed out of shape. Officers should be better than their enlisted counterparts in every way - more highly educated, more physically fit, and with impeccable moral standards. That isn't reality.

And to anyone who tries to make light of the situation, saying "he's just exaggerating..." or "but but, the benefits, and the money, and the bla bla bla" - come on in! Don't say I didn't warn you when times get hard. I literally worked 75 hours this week (came in every day), and on top of that I worked out like a mad man, and worked on my grad school class. I am loving it! Motivation!

jeckrn, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2010

Can understand as a ex enlisted HM I seen how it worked in the Navy.

lifeafter40 · Oct 15, 2010

i'll agree that the recruiters typically paint a rosy picture of military life, and can appreciate your efforts to enlighten others who are looking into military as a career.

the only thing i can say is that there is just as much discrepancy between professionals in the civilian world. a person needs to take a hard, realistic look at what their personal goals are and decide if they are willing to do what it takes to reach them and if they are on the right path to achieve those goals.

as prior service, i can attest to the fact that one officer corps will look down on another. combat arms officers (or enlisted for that matter) tend to think that their counterparts in say, jag corps or med corps, are not real officers...

in the civilian world, in a hospital setting, even if you work your tail off and continue your education to end up with a doctorate degree in nursing... physicians are still going to think you are "just a nurse."

the military is it's own little ecosystem. within that system, just like in the civilian world, you will advance within your own profession, but you cannot compare apples to oranges. rank, like a title, does not hold the same weight across professions. i imagine that major general horoho, chief of the army nurse corp, does not get the same respect as her combat arms counterparts, but you can bet she gets the respect within her own profession...in spades.

it may not seem fair... unilateral respect and equal treatment would be ideal, but it is not an ideal world that we live in.

the military is not for everyone, but an applicant needs to decide if they want a job or a career... the military gives you both, but you have to work for it. you can bet the young attorney or business professional in the civilian world will have to work their butt off, including lots of unpaid overtime, if they want to advance withing their profession. even if he/she is good at their job, it takes more than that to become a partner in the firm. i am comparing unlike fruit, i know, but i am just trying to illustrate that the civilian world is not all rosy either.

the nice thing about this board is that interested people can get a glimpse of what is to come from the members who have gone before them. the recruiters make it sound like easy money, and they are right...and wrong. if you want a job, then all you really have to do in the military is follow the rules and keep your nose clean. the benefits are good and the pay is not bad. but if you want a career, then you are going to have to work at it every step of the way... just like any other professional field.

i'm done rambling now :)

la40

SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2010

Yikes folks, give us newbies a break! It's too late to "unsign" the contract for people like me, and what are we left to do but make the best out of what we got ourselves into? If I had read this stuff before I signed, I might have seriously reconsidered what I was about to put on paper. I knew going in that being an Army nurse wasn't going to be easy, but it's what I wanted to do, not for benefits or for money, but for the sheer purpose of serving my country and answering what I considered to be the highest calling for me as a nurse. Is the military really that unfullfilling, unenjoyable and depressing?