Been an RN for 20 years, can't take anymore

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

I was overwhelmed by my work and feeling unsafe/anxious about it. I ended up in another job, and amazingly, the workload here is manageable. It wasn't me, and it wasn't that every hospital is in crisis so there's nothing that can be done....nope, it was the hospital all along. Don't give up on yourself.

I suggest travel nursing, and research your hospitals ahead of time. For more money its easier to put up with more crap. But if you wind up in a richer or more educated community, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[darnold38, BSN, RN]

OP: Girl, 58? They'll hire you. ? I didn't even graduate with my Associates in Nursing til I was 60! Second career. Eight years later I'm technically disabled due to back problems that progressed requiring surgery which I had last year. Now, since I waited so doggone long for the surgery, I have residual numbness/tingling in my feet/legs requiring a cane for me to feel safe. I can walk short distances without it though. None of this is conducive to nursing.

Since I too am too poor to quit working (SS benefits and the small pension I get from my ex are just not enough) I started looking for remote work but was not having luck in traditional nursing case management job listings even after 3 years bedside nursing and 4 years in home health. I started looking in other areas, transcription for medical and/or legal, which was my first career, customer service, etc. I finally found a position, 100% remote, doing medical record summaries for a law office. They actually liked my 7 years of nursing vs the 13+ years of legal secretarial experience I had. I'm making almost as much doing that as I did nursing. I also have a paralegal associates degree but never used it, as I took my first nursing job instead, but I always wanted to do something using both my legal and nursing experiences. Oh, and I had a zoom interview for the remote position and went to the office for 1/2 day of training. They all saw my 68 year old face/body with no problems, of course most of the people I met were not youngsters either LOL.

My suggestion to you is to look at your strengths, your passions, your experiences and either go in a new direction or meld nursing with your passions to find a position that you like. I'll bet during the application/interview process, they won't even think of your age. 

Best of luck to you. 

[darnold38, BSN, RN]

brandy1017 said:

Thanks for the encouragement!  Glad to hear you were able to get a good paying job using all your talents.  It is inspiring and reminds us to think outside the box rather than on narrowly focused nursing jobs.  I think a lot of us get tunnel vision, especially after working at one job or in one field of nursing for a long time.  It's a good reminder that we can branch out and try different things.

Sorry to hear about your issues with numbness and tingling of your feet and legs.  It can be a sign of lumbar stenosis which can be common as we get older, and especially in nursing from the wear and tear on our backs.

  I was recently diagnosed when I finally went to the Dr after years of pain when I stood for even 5 minutes and chronic numbness of one foot.  I didn't immediately think it was my back because the pain would go away when I sat down, plus I've had a couple surgeries on that leg and foot since I was a child so I assumed the numbness was from that. 

I had PT and did abdominal exercises and it actually got much better after about a month, but it didn't last, it's starting to flare up again.  I will have to be more diligent with my exercises.  It is the one pain that didn't respond to any pain meds, which was a new thing for me.  I've lived with bad migraines and even a bone tumor, but pain meds, even just advil would take the pain away so this was a first. 

A coworker finally had surgery for her back after over 20 years and is free of pain and able to hike and enjoy life, but because she delayed it she lives with chronic numbness in her feet too.  So to those out there with back pain and numbness please get it checked out as it is treatable.

Brandy, I hear you about the pain. I couldn't stand straight, had to lean forward to walk, had to start using a walker and a tub chair. Couldn't sit/stand/walk for more than 5-10 minutes. Laying down hurt too. Pain meds (magnesium, lidocaine patches, any number of muscle rubs/sprays, TENS machine, PT, Tylenol, naproxen, excedrin, tramadol [what a joke that was], Tylenol 3 and Percocet 5s) didn't help either. My pain was always at an 8/10 with Percocets, then an hour later was back at 10/10. All they did was get me addicted so after the surgery I had to wean myself off, the pain doc was no help even after I printed CDC and FDA guidelines for weaning which I gave to him and tried to explain to him which he just tossed aside. But interestingly I just read an article for a study about opioids not helping back and neck pain and being no better than placebo. And then the docs wonder why we say the meds aren't helping ? and then treat us like drug addicts ? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)00404-X/fulltext

I'm working at PT too now and making slow progress but still have "irritating" pins and needles and numbness in my butt, back of thighs, legs and feet. It's irritating but the pain is so much better than prior to the surgery, most says at a 1 or 2/10. But some days it's really irritating and I feel so agitated. 
 

I will say though, a word of warning to any and all nurses out there going through something similar: DO NOT think you are indispensable! I thought that. "I can't stop to have surgery, I'll be off for at least 6 weeks". So I got worse. I finally was off on FMLA, then disability for an entire year, let alone 6 weeks! If I had done the surgery even a year earlier I think I would be somewhat better now. As it is, I'm not able to do most of what I used to do. At least I don't have the horrible pain anymore though. ??‍♀️ We need to take care of ourselves. Lesson learned. 

[Gratefulbutnotstupid, ASN, LPN, RN]

I understand the need to get away from nursing.  I started young and had over 29 years when I left the hospital and was nowhere near retirement.  I had back surgery for a herniated disc with immediate left foot and back of leg numbness.  I went back to staff nursing in a tele unit and I was okay.  I could have stuck it out awhile longer, but the culture had changed so much , I felt the need to go.  I was lucky, as a nonprofit asked me to apply for their head of Health Services (I was previously on their Board of Directors so they knew me).  I applied and just left after 17 1/2 years.  Don't get me wrong, nothing is perfect , but a change can Spring you back into action for awhile.  I had my frustrations and difficulties with this job, but they were different.   My first day, I felt like I was on vacation as I was given 1 hour paid lunch!  Who does that.  I didn't know what to do with this fortune.  It didn't take long before I was bringing lunch in or ordering in so I could work through lunch, but again it was okay, it was different.  Try different.

Those years I worked for an agency supporting people with developmental disabilities.  Over the years nurses came and went.  Some went into dialysis, behavioral health, health insurance companies and some moved on in their education.   I just retired last month.  I feel very lucky and different.  

Go out of the box and hang in there.  My best hopes of success for you.

[Curious1alwys, BSN, RN]

brandy1017 said:

Some of jobs in a hospital that might be less stressful to transfer to would include pre-admitting nurse, case manager, outpatient, cardiac rehab, GI colonoscopy, IR nurse and maybe PACU.  These are a few suggestions to try to maintain hospital health and retirement benefits.  Since many hospitals are big corporations you can check out their various other clinics and hospitals for openings.

While you are working I recommend starting a Roth IRA if you don't have one.  It can be used as an emergency fund if need be since contributions aren't penalized and after 5 years and you are 59 1/2 even the interest is tax free and no penalty if you need to withdraw from it.  As I mentioned before you can make withdrawals to keep taxable income low to get best cost for health insurance premiums on the ACA healthcare.gov site.  If I had to pay full price my insurance premiums would be around $700 month as they go by age, but due to income low with help of Roth they are only $35 a month for a silver plan with a $1050 deductible. 

Also while still working choose a high deductible and max out your HSA which I did as well for several years before I quit.  That money is yours and sometimes the employer will add some as well.  You can use that money for current or future medical/dental/vision expenses or you can save the receipts and then pull money from the HSA in the future and just make sure you have the receipts in cause of an IRS audit.  There is not a time limit on when you take money out of HSA for your med bills as long as you keep the receipts.  This also is tax free and helps keep your income low while either using it for past or present med expenses.  Technically you could use it to pay for COBRA health insurance premiums which lasts up to 18 months after you leave but I think Obamacare is much cheaper even though you can't use the HSA to pay premiums.

Lastly to those that have a house you may want to get a HELOC before you quit, but consider it just an emergency fund if your back is against the wall and use it as sparingly as possible since rates are now up to 8% and probably will go higher.  It is a variable line of credit off the equity of your house it can go as high as 18%, depending on your lender, if the Feds jack rates that high and I guess it happened back in the 70's with the stagflation so be warned.  The days of cheap credit are over.  You can pay as little as interest only for the first ten years and then have to start paying off the principle after that.  Again I stress this is only for real emergencies and I would try to make more than the minimum payment because you don't want to get overextended and lose your house.

Once you quit you have to decide if you will get another job elsewhere and whether you will take your social security early at 62.  If you aren't working that is probably your best bet.  But if you are working it probably won't make sense due to their income limits before they start withholding part of your social security payments if you make more than $21, 240 a year.   It is complicated.  But if you quit at 62 or later and already made that or more they don't go by that total, then they look at the monthly income after you stopped working.

The only downside of Obamacare is since the premium subsidies are tied to your income if you decide to get a job in the middle of the year and then make a good nursing income you would be hit with a tax bill as those subsidies would no longer apply since you made too much money so you have to keep that in mind as well.

PS to the OP that has only 8 years left on her mortgage just remember you are almost done and it is mostly principle and not interest at this point!  Think of ways to make it work to make enough money to pay the mortgage till you can bridge to SS at 62 if you can't find a better job.  In fact I did an 8 year refi 2.6% in 2020 and took early retirement at the end of the year so it will be paid off when I'm 63.

My unionized hospital was the only one in the corp system in the city, but there was a neuro clinic attached so several of my coworkers went there and are happy.  It is much easier and still have union benefits.  So an attached hospital clinic might help you retain your union benefits talk with your union rep if that is an option as well if there is only one union hospital in the system.

Acuity has skyrocketed in cardiac rehab.....and you are the ONLY nurse typically. So it is definitely not something I would consider less stressful. In some ways, yes, in some ways, it's worse than the floor. 

[Curious1alwys, BSN, RN]

brandy1017 said:

Also consider keeping several years of expenses till 62 in a low risk fund such as money market or if you have my retirement 403b, all I had was an annuity.  It is crap, but I will move the money to a Vanguard IRA, where my Roth is after 59 1/2 for better options.  I recommend moving your 401k/403b funds to an IRA of your choice Vanguard, Fidelity and Charles Schwab are the top three, once you are 59 1/2 for better options and possibly lower fees.

This is considered the Bucket Method where you have a safe amount of money (say 1-3 years or till 62 for SS) in cash equivalent like treasury, money market or annuity to ride out a downturn and the rest in a conservative mix of stocks and bonds.

Last year I lost 18% even though I had a big chunk in bonds what I thought was conservative, but I knew it was a Schmeta year and stocks usually crash, which they did, and rarely bonds.  Well I took the risk and bonds crashed the worst in possibly all of US history!  On top of that when I analyzed my bond fund it turned out it was full of derivatives and not simple bonds so was much riskier than it appeared and never had a good annual return! 

I used their Vanguard stock funds as low fee, but they switched to the worst performing Vanguard mix of mid-small caps, and even the so called large S&P was not that and had more NASDAQ funds so more volatility!  Before the switch I had some money in the Vanguard small cap and it was doing the best only lost 5%, but thankfully I caught the switch to the new blended fund and moved my money quickly out of there.  My friend who let the 403b advisor choose for her had every fund in the mix, which included several of their own brand with high 1% fees!  It was definitely not in her interest.  Think she lost 24% before she moved it to the annuity for safety.

You can check out your social security benefits at SSA.gov it will show you what your benefit is projected to be at 62, 65 and up.

Check out my previous comments for more on personal finance books I recommend.  One caveat do NOT invest in REITs as with the high interest rates and work from home those will be crashing!  Also stocks and bonds will probably not be performing well and may crash at any time as the feds keep raising interest rates due to inflation and the government has stopped propping up the stock market with lots of easy money.  Bonds don't do well in a high interest rate environment.  Plus there are more problems on the horizon re the de-dollarization as Saudia Arabia and other world nations stop using the dollar as the reserve currency.

In the meantime talk to your Dr, take a leave if you can, meds do help!  If you find another job, come back and give your two week notice so you don't get stuck paying for your health insurance premiums while you were off.  Use your EAP, I did and mine suggested I quit and find another job.  Well I quit and took early retirement instead, but had prepared as much as I was possible beforehand.

I wasn't depressed, but I was anxious, very stressed, burnt out and on the verge of a nervous breakdown from the bad working conditions, short staffing, constant alarms, mandation etc.  I had thoughts of walking off the job on bad nights, but knew that wasn't the answer.  I had prepared my resignation letter months before hand and kept it ready till it was time.  I also marked down on a calendar when I had a good day to remind myself they weren't always bad. 

Also was thankful for my coworkers and the team work we had.  Be kind to each other, have pot luck meals etc. While you are still there, try to focus on the little things that make you happy, kind patients, good coworkers, etc.  I worked nights so would listen to music quietly at the station and even brought in one of my favorite flowers when it was in bloom. One night near the end I chose to listen to a country song Done in the car even though I knew it would make me a couple minutes late.  Thinking about giving notice and the song gave me a little joy. LOL

Take your vacations!  Even if just a staycation!  It is a mental health break!  Use that PTO as some places will cheat you out of it when you leave.  My coworker lost 200 hours of PTO after she retired because she called in when she was manic.  They knew she wasn't in her right mind, but there was no mercy!  No matter all the OT she did during covid the policy said if you call in they can withhold your PTO, which they did and they wouldn't relent! 

This same director had laid off several CNA's and HUCS without severance prior to covid because it wasn't in the union contract!  No compassion or common human decency or normal professional business etiquette.  At the same time the CNO who had been the Dean of a college denied workers' tuition reimbursement on a technicality when there hadn't been a manager to approve it.  Even as a prior Dean she had no concern for helping them further their education and use the tuition reimbursement when there was a technicality to cheat them out of that benefit!  I guess it is no surprise that she was promoted to Regional CNO but I've heard she has since retired.  That is the snakes and vipers that ran that place!  Took all I could to finish out my 2 week notice!

So the best thing you can do for yourself is prepare, plan and realize you do have choices!  So you are not in the victim mindset but take agency over your life.  I will renew my nursing license next year and I suggest you do the same in the off hand chance any of us get a PT nursing job to keep all our options open!

To me taking my pension early, and SS early is worth it for my peace of mind even if it means giving up some money in the process!  If I had to I would be willing to sell my plasma to make ends meet.  Whatever it takes to be happy and stress free! 

I live frugally, take a couple vacations with a senior vacation club, enjoy my family, friends, pet Buster and hobbies like gardening.  You won't need as much money as you will most likely be in a lower tax bracket and won't have to pay SS/medicare taxes if you aren't working.  Your money will stretch further, but you have to be mindful to make it 62 where you will have SS to increase your income. 

Deal with your Debt by Liz Weston talks about using it as a strategy.  I still have some debt but use credit balance transfers.  Penfed (credit union, anyone can join with nominal donation if they don't automatically meet acceptance requirements) and Discover are good options. Understand the main thing is to keep expenses low till SS or another job.  My pension pays my mortgage.  Get some credit cards before you retire if you don't already have them.  But use them sparingly and pay them off as you go or do 0% balance transfers.  Check your credit and credit score and keep your credit score high so you will have the best options.

Hope this info helps everyone that is struggling out there.

Thank you for all this! Super knowledgeable. 

Curious.....if you have a credit score pushing 850, what interest rate do you think you can get on a credit card?

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

Curious1alwys said:

Thank you for all this! Super knowledgeable. 

Curious.....if you have a credit score pushing 850, what interest rate do you think you can get on a credit card?

Banks are in trouble and worried about their own future so charging more interest and fees to shore up their own balance statements so don't expect great terms even with great credit.  Interest rates have climbed to 18% and up due to the feds spike.  If you are lucky maybe you can get 16%. 

I still advise having a few credit cards for emergencies, for rewards and the extra protections if you buy something and it is defective or traveling and if it provides car rental insurance etc.  A couple still don't charge a fee for international use.

If you have debt, then look for the best balance transfer options, most offer 0% up to 18 months with a 3-5% fee.  A credit union credit card is capped at 18% max, unlike banks which have no limit, so it is good to have at least one credit union card as well.  The only person who should avoid credit cards is one who can't control their spending and is like a gambler then probably best to avoid. 

If you do have credit cards make sure to use them or they may cut you off, lower your credit limit or even close them for non use.  Add a small revolving bill to each credit card to make sure they are being used, unless you are doing a balance transfer with one of them.  I use mint to keep track of all my finances and pay my bills online. 

But some of the banks are starting to make you sign legal liability and arbitration waivers to use online services and bill pay such as Chase so be aware!  This is because there have been many people who have been tricked out of thousands of dollars by fraudulent cell phone calls and texts via phishing from scammers with spoofing technology pretending to be the official company like Chase, Wells Fargo and Bank of America.  Only a few of these people have been refunded their thousands of dollars after public pressure when a local TV news media rep outs the bank.  So beware if you receive any call or text asking about a questionable bill that you didn't do.  Hang up!  Do not call them!  Do not speak to them!  Speak only to your own bank either at the local bank or calling the 800 # on the back of your credit card to verify!