Attn Clinic/Doctors office nurses!

[Elleveein]

I've seen this topic before but it's come up again at my clinic/urgent care, sorry in advance if you've heard this a million times. Do you call medical assistants nurses at your clinic? Would you care if a pt or the doc called them nurses? How would you handle it?

I'm the only nurse at my job yet all of us, myself and six MAs are referred to as "nurse" by the pts and the doctors. Ugh! I'm so over it! Is it really that big of a deal? Should i just let it go? I live in Cali where the word "nurse" is to only be used for RNs,LVNs and graduate nurses but theses doctors in private practice don't giva a poo about the law.....

[kcmylorn]

Medical assistance , patient care technicians, nurses aids, medication technicians do not fall under the jurisdiction of the Board of Nursing because they do not have a license. These groups are classified as " Unlicensed Assistive Personnel". They only hold a certificate. Therefore; the Boards of Nursing can not discipline them. They have no authority over them. Just like the Board of Nursing has no authority over a Doctor, Mortician, Hairdresser, Engineer, Lawyer, Dentist. All hold licenses and answer to their own regulatory body.

The prosecution and disciplining of an "Unlicensed Assistive Personnal"- a nurses aid, medical assistant, ect, comes under the state's Office of the Attorney General. Google your state's office of the attorney general.

For a medical Assistant, nursing assistant, hurst driver etc to call theselves "nurse" is a criminal offense, a felony- fraud.. It's the equivalant of stealing some one's credit cards- it's identy theft. It's fraud. A person who calls themselves a "Doctor" who is not a medical Board licensed Physican is committing fraud. They are frauding the public. A person who calls themselves a "Nurse" who is not a nursing Board licensed nurse is committing fraud. They are frauding the public. They are misleading the public to thinking they are something they are not. A lawyer has to pass the Bar exam to become "licensed" to practice law. A law clerk or a paralegal can not call themselves a "Lawyer" They cannot give legal advice. They do not posses the education to qualify to take the Bar exam so they therefore cannot give legal advise, try cases, represent clients.

So, why do we nurses tolerate these assistants and aids calling themselves "Nurses"? They do not posses the education to qualify to take the Nursing Boards or NCLEX and therefore practice nursing- make nursing decisions, perform critical thinking, defy the nurses task delegation, engage in patient teaching, interpret lab results( yes, there are quite a few who give patients their lab results both over the phone and hand them paper copies without the providers review. This I have personally witnessed and reported. I could tell some stories on these events alone), teach patients and families about their medications and give general nursing advice. They are soooo out of control. If this were a law clerk, does anyone think this would be tolerated?? Heck- NO.

The majority of the fault lies with nursing adminstration. There is no back up to the "licensed " nurse. When the nurse try's to correct the aidor the medical assistnat, the aid or the medicalassitant say- "It's not what the nurse said, it's how the nurse said it, My feeling we hurt, they embarassed me", My personal favorite" the nurse is being abusive" :barf01: It is viewed as the "poor aid, medical assistant is being picked on" by the "nasty nurse". Do they think their feelings are going to any less spared when the lawyers and prosecutors drag them into to court on a witness stand and ask them why they let said patient think they were a "nurse".They're feelings weren't too hurt to do that! Call the Attorney General's Office and let them "pick on" the poor aid, medical assistant and the nursing administration can tell it to the Attorney General, the Federal judge, the prosecutor to stop "picking on the aid and the medical assistants

[Elleveein, LVN]

Allllrighty then. I'll contact the attorney general, I doubt anything will happen.

[sailornurse]

The clinic I used to work at, the MA's were used to the patients referring to them (MAs) as nurses and they even used to say, the other "nurse", even the the other FNP once came out and asked "where are the nurses?" to which I replied, you and I are the only nurses that work here, they are MAs, He laughed and acknowledged that since I was faculty at the BSN program I would say that. He & they quit calling themselves nurses, they even got name tags that said, "Jane Smith, Medical assistant".

These are protected titles, so to call yourself a nurse or use the initials RN is illegal. One of the local hospitals even had tags made for "Clinical Nurse Preceptor" but unfortunately they abbreviated it to " CNP" I had to write a letter to the director of nursing pointing out this is my title on my nursing license and it is a protected title for Certified Nurse Practitioner and informed her the RNs could not have badges with these initials.

[nursel56]

hi elleveein - i've had so much frustration over this and other scope of practice issues i've looked for resources for a long time. the practice act is not very specific and is geared toward consumer protection but kaiser ambulatory services had a committee go through the law and make this very detailed booklet with clear graphs. it's very specific on the subject of who can be referred to as "nurse" and the possible consequences of violating those rules. i found it had lots of useful information, so here is the link in case you are interested.

scope of practice[color=#330033] - resource guide

http://www.ambulatorypractice.org/clinical_practice/docs/scope of practice resource guide.pdf

i just wanted to add that other healthcare workers can run into problems with titles as well, and some consumers are very aware of this. one of the pas at the urgent care center i use was accused of misrepresenting himself as a doctor (physician). wearing id tags with titles and being careful about introductions is just prudent nowadays.

[Elleveein, LVN]

Thanks for the info. I'm not gonna worry about it any more, as long as I use proper titles I'm not going to obsess over what they're are saying.i reported it, thats all I can do.

[groovetta]

As a patient, I felt mislead when my hubby told me that the "nurse" at out PCPs office was not a nurse, but rather a medical assistant. Apparently the term "nurse" is used loosely in their office as well. She is a top notch MA. It does sort of bug me that the MD allows a MA to phone in Rx. Of course, flip flops worn with scrubs should have given it away. )

[Agmorr01]

At my clinic, MA's must identify themselves on the phone or in person as an MA. It is impersonating a nurse.

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

There is a huge difference between a MA and a RN. Really there is. Its mostly called education but that is just part of it.

That's an understatement. ...and it's not "mostly education" in my opinion. I'm a relatively new-grad nurse and I can't even tell you how many of my colleagues have earned their education and credentials and have left the profession because they couldn't professionally adapt in one way or another. It's education and the ability to effectively apply that education to beating hearts.

Huge huge difference....

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

To do anything less would be dishonest and I could go to jail for impersonating a doctor.

Are you referring to physicians? To be fair, they should never refer to themselves as 'doctor' unless they hold a doctorate level academic degree, the vast majority of which do not. I'm not saying that you should start correcting people that refer to physicians as 'doctors', but you most certainly could and quite accurately so. M.D.'s are not doctors.

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

[...]

nurses aids ... do not fall under the jurisdiction of the Board of Nursing

(fyi) That is not true in all jurisdictions. In Arizona, e.g. nursing assistants hold certificates -- true, but they are still under the jurisdiction of the board of nursing as certificate holders.

[CaliBoy760]

factoviia, Of course an M.D. can call themselves "Doctor", because they are a "Doctor of Medicine". Non-medical individuals holding Doctorate degrees are also allowed to call themselves "Doctor" because they have achieved a Doctorate of Philosophy, or PhD., which may, or may not be related to the science of medicine.

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

Of course an M.D. can call themselves "Doctor", because they are a "Doctor of Medicine".

Yes, that has been the modern convention, but technically, they should have a doctorate level academic degree, such as a Doctorate of Nursing Practice in order to earn the distinguished title of "Doctor". :)

This argument was first presented to me by the President of a certain national advanced practice nursing professional organization that will remain anonymous. It is a thought provoking argument and the current thread reminded me of it.

If I am ever in a situation in which the practitioner with a medical degree greets the unlicensed staff with "good morning nurses!", I will be more than happy to return the greeting with:

"Good morning, physician!", because a doctor, he is not.