the shootings at the johns hopkins hospital made national news. maybe i'm cynical, but i think it was because a doctor was shot. news reports say that dr. david cohen was updating the patient's son about her condition, and the man was increasingly unhappy with what he was hearing. after threatening to jump out of a window, he pulled out a gun and shot the surgeon in the abdomen. he was taken to the er -- and whoever went and removed him from the scene is certainly heroic! -- and then to surgery. latest reports are that he is doing well and expected to make a full recovery.
the visitor shot his mother and then himself.
this may seem like an isolated incident, but really it's just a progression of what we nurses put up with on a regular basis. shooting a doctor makes the news. threatening to shoot the nurse, even if you're armed and dangerous, does not. decking a doctor makes the news. beating up on mother's nurse does not. threatening a doctor gets attention; threatening a nurse is business as usual.
i've been kicked, bitten, slapped, punched and threatened with knives, guns and an "attack dog" while in the course of taking care of patients. once i was in the center of an armed confrontation between law enforcement personnel who carried guns and were unhappy with their relative's care and hospital security personnel. the situation was resolved without formal charges, and the visitors were back the next day. another time, when taking care of a prison inmate who was dying i was nearly knifed by his son (also an inmate) with a homemade machete he'd smuggled out of prison and into the hospital. withdrawing care on the patient was illegal -- it would be shortening the convict's life sentence. the son was intent on shortening the life sentence, although it's unclear whether he was doing it to ensure dad was indeed on his way to hell or if it would have been a mercy killing. (i wasn't particularly brave. i had my back to the visitor and was tackled by a prison guard to get me out of danger while two other guards wrestled the son to the ground and disarmed him.) it's made me reluctant to turn my back on visitors.
in some states, threatening or attacking a health care worker performing her job is a crime on the same level as assaulting a police officer. not in our state. the visitors are free to insult, assault and batter nurses and then come back to visit. in one incident, a patient's husband threatened me and another nurse with a handgun at 6 pm. it was 9pm before the police were notified, and midnight before the visitor -- who was in plain sight the entire time -- was in custody. he was back visiting by 6 am. our manager, bless her heart, wasn't concerned about the gun-toting husband because "he's from texas. everyone carries a gun there."
we need stiffer penalties for attacks on nursing staff, managers who will stand up for us and a visitor's code of conduct prominently posted in hospital entrances and waiting rooms and strictly enforced. (metal detectors and locked units would be nice, too, but i'm not holding my breath.) and we need it sooner, rather than later.
We're collecting it now from this thread since it is not commonly reported because we are not worth it. Why are you doubting others experiences? Can't you take us at our word?
Grandmawrinkle isn't doubting the individual experience. What she's doubting is the extrapolation of the individual experience to all of nursing.
And the stories collected in this thread are not the statistical evidence that she's asked for.
That hospital managers just write off attacks on nurses shows how much they value us. Very little. Contact your local nurse's union and politicians and beef up penalties for assault. One of my nurse friends even once said he wished he could carry a CHL in the small of his back.
Grandmawrinkle isn't doubting the individual experience. What she's doubting is the extrapolation of the individual experience to all of nursing.
And the stories collected in this thread are not the statistical evidence that she's asked for.
Fribblet,
she is doubting, nonetheless. As far as statistics go we have none because none is collected. Visit fbi.gov and see if we are represent in the crime statistics section. No, we are not. My point was that she can holler all she wants she will get no statistics which is what she knows hence the reason she's asking for it. We can start by collecting statistics in this thread or we can strike a rock with our rods and see what comes out.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
your point is well-taken. however, i do see some positives in the editorial; namely, the recognition by non-medical staff that there is an unsafe environment created by the convergence of stress and anxiety which many people are ill-equipped to deal with, the stark realities of life & death which are the reason for hospitals' existence in the first place, issues surrounding narcotic use/abuse, and untreated mental health issues.
i'm not trying to grasp for crumbs ... but recognition of these realities is, in my experience, very much lacking in the non-medical public, who tend to view hospitals as places where their every pain, fear, disease pathology, knowledge deficit and *alteration in comfort* should magically disappear, while we cater to any and every possible need/want.
i also find encouraging the editorial's point that " ... the question of whether its (johns hopkins') workers consistently feel safe ..." is a question worth asking. again, this is not a mindset that i often see in the media or in the non-medical public.
i also find these letters to the editor encouraging.
while the first of those letters calls for metal detectors to make all health care workers and patients/visitors feel safe, the second focuses on the problems of doctors, excluding the other health care workers who face the same issues.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
sorry, but metal detectors are not the answer
jh consists of several city blocks, numerous buildings, over 80 entrances. many of my pts are going to have metal in them or on them, or devices where metal detectors, other security devices are going to be tripped/problematic. not to mention cultural issues with searching/scanning.
it is not an airport, where there is a limited area of access and most of the participants are healthy. nor is it a museum where there are a limited number of employees, and a few doors.
nor will it eliminate danger. in all facilities, there are iv pumps/poles, chair and utensils and other things easily used as weapons. not to mention, invaribly there is always someone careless with more hazardous equipment.
metal detectors may be part of the answer -- but they're expensive and hopkins isn't likely to want to spend that money. as other opinion pieces have stated, most of those entrances could be restricted to badge access only with metal detectors on patient entrances. but the real change would have to be a culture change -- absolutely no tolerance for any violence or threat of violence of any kind. that seems unlikely to happen in our present "customer service" mind set. a nurse confronted with violence is invariably asked what she did wrong, the offenders get free meals in the cafeteria.
Specializes in med surg, cardiac step down, rehab, geri.
bravo for posting this and whomever disagrees has never been hit, threatened, harmed or scared to be in nursing! if you read the stats on violence in the workplace for nurses you will see just how many nurses are killed, shot, beat up, and traumatized in the work place
all medical facilities need security 24/7 we have drugs people want to begin with and they will hurt you to get to them, we deal with crazy families, crazy patients ( who have ALL the rights) and others who just wander in off the streets drunk drugged or just plain crazy.
I just left a facility as I was hit by another staff member and no one did a thing nope it was ok to do lateral violence if we had security I could have called them and I was told not to call the cops as I wasn't really hurt doesn't matter if I was hurt it was potential harm to a medical professional!
when are the medical boards going to force facilities to protect the staff? when 50% of nurses quit the field and schools can't fill the nursing classes? I know many who have quit nursing and have gone on to become lawyers, does that give you a hint of why things need to change?
Thank you for that advice but does minimum force necessary, whatever that means, apply only to nurses? We're not talking about hitting a man when he's down. As far as the law goes one is allowed to use the maximum force necessary to protect life and limb and that of others. Can you imagine someone attacking another nurse with a knife or a gun and one has to decide how much force to use? You move towards a police officer with a pocket knife and you're dead. So why are we held to a higher standard? I guess because we've been trained in Israeli martial arts at nursing school. I'm practicing my karate moves with my fingers right at this moment on the keyboards. Self-preservation first, I say.
No one will fault you in using a maximum force necessary to protect life and limb, that is in fact as you noted, the right of "self preservation."
Where my situation was touchy, and my focus for caution, was the inpatient status of the attacker, as well as the presence of witnesses with varying perceptions. Had I continued to unecessarily injure an inaptient in a bid for "self preservation" in this situation, I supect that I would have been in trouble. Luckily, there were two professional opinions present.
Something else for all to think about.
Pre-identify a personal plan (escape / hiding place) should a mass murderer ever be shooting up your workplace in close proximity. I intend to come home to my children at all costs, so self preservation as opposed to heroism is the order of the day.
if you read the stats on violence in the workplace for nurses you will see just how many nurses are killed, shot, beat up, and traumatized in the work place
I live in an area with a lot of gang violence. We've had gang-shooting victims in our ICU and it's hard to tell the difference between family members and anyone wanting to finish the job. No cops posted in the Unit, by the way. The hospital won't ensure our safety either. De-escalating a situation won't work on someone intent on doing harm. I've always told my husband to sue the **** out of the hospital if I'm ever killed on the job because the police won't sit on a shooting victim to make sure we're all safe. Hospital security? They run the other way!
If your job allows that you need to find a new job. All hospitals are not that way and if they have to find new staff because of it yours won't be either. Have you talked to management about it? Who have you talked to? I don't know you personally of course but i see a lot of people who will complain about things like this every day and never tell anyone who can do something or do something themselves to change it. And it's different at all hospitals but still you need to do everything you can an if thy doesn't work go somewhere else. At my hospital if a nurse is assaulted we press charges is at all feasible (ideally the situation is dealt with before it would get to that point but obviously that doesn't always happen.
I've noticed in mental health that the higher the status of the assaulted person, the more drastic the consequences. It's not unusual to hear something like 'well after the two assaults on the ward we tried to get him moved to the Intensive Care Unit and were told no. But then he went into his ward round and threw a cup of tea at the consultant, and was moved in the next hour.'
There definitely are statistics about violence on wards and Emergency rooms. I will try and look them up when I get the chance.
Fribblet
839 Posts
Grandmawrinkle isn't doubting the individual experience. What she's doubting is the extrapolation of the individual experience to all of nursing.
And the stories collected in this thread are not the statistical evidence that she's asked for.