the shootings at the johns hopkins hospital made national news. maybe i'm cynical, but i think it was because a doctor was shot. news reports say that dr. david cohen was updating the patient's son about her condition, and the man was increasingly unhappy with what he was hearing. after threatening to jump out of a window, he pulled out a gun and shot the surgeon in the abdomen. he was taken to the er -- and whoever went and removed him from the scene is certainly heroic! -- and then to surgery. latest reports are that he is doing well and expected to make a full recovery.
the visitor shot his mother and then himself.
this may seem like an isolated incident, but really it's just a progression of what we nurses put up with on a regular basis. shooting a doctor makes the news. threatening to shoot the nurse, even if you're armed and dangerous, does not. decking a doctor makes the news. beating up on mother's nurse does not. threatening a doctor gets attention; threatening a nurse is business as usual.
i've been kicked, bitten, slapped, punched and threatened with knives, guns and an "attack dog" while in the course of taking care of patients. once i was in the center of an armed confrontation between law enforcement personnel who carried guns and were unhappy with their relative's care and hospital security personnel. the situation was resolved without formal charges, and the visitors were back the next day. another time, when taking care of a prison inmate who was dying i was nearly knifed by his son (also an inmate) with a homemade machete he'd smuggled out of prison and into the hospital. withdrawing care on the patient was illegal -- it would be shortening the convict's life sentence. the son was intent on shortening the life sentence, although it's unclear whether he was doing it to ensure dad was indeed on his way to hell or if it would have been a mercy killing. (i wasn't particularly brave. i had my back to the visitor and was tackled by a prison guard to get me out of danger while two other guards wrestled the son to the ground and disarmed him.) it's made me reluctant to turn my back on visitors.
in some states, threatening or attacking a health care worker performing her job is a crime on the same level as assaulting a police officer. not in our state. the visitors are free to insult, assault and batter nurses and then come back to visit. in one incident, a patient's husband threatened me and another nurse with a handgun at 6 pm. it was 9pm before the police were notified, and midnight before the visitor -- who was in plain sight the entire time -- was in custody. he was back visiting by 6 am. our manager, bless her heart, wasn't concerned about the gun-toting husband because "he's from texas. everyone carries a gun there."
we need stiffer penalties for attacks on nursing staff, managers who will stand up for us and a visitor's code of conduct prominently posted in hospital entrances and waiting rooms and strictly enforced. (metal detectors and locked units would be nice, too, but i'm not holding my breath.) and we need it sooner, rather than later.
JH consists of several city blocks, numerous buildings, over 80 entrances. Many of my pts are going to have metal in them or on them, or devices where metal detectors, other security devices are going to be tripped/problematic. Not to mention cultural issues with searching/scanning.
It is not an airport, where there is a limited area of access and most of the participants are healthy. Nor is it a museum where there are a limited number of employees, and a few doors.
Nor will it eliminate danger. In ALL facilities, there are IV pumps/poles, chair and utensils and other things easily used as weapons. Not to mention, invaribly there is always someone careless with more hazardous equipment.
I live and work in Texas and not all Texans carry guns, unfortunately. Nurses are especially vunerable to attacks and you are right, no one cares. After a vicious verbal attack which was followed up by another family member, I was tempted to turn in my license. Women are at a disadvantage but I am a man and will never allow anyone to lay a finger on my person without defending myself to the best of my ability - whatever it takes.
JH consists of several city blocks, numerous buildings, over 80 entrances. Many of my pts are going to have metal in them or on them, or devices where metal detectors, other security devices are going to be tripped/problematic. Not to mention cultural issues with searching/scanning.
It is not an airport, where there is a limited area of access and most of the participants are healthy. Nor is it a museum where there are a limited number of employees, and a few doors.
Nor will it eliminate danger. In ALL facilities, there are IV pumps/poles, chair and utensils and other things easily used as weapons. Not to mention, invaribly there is always someone careless with more hazardous equipment.
Cultural issues with searching and scanning? So what! Only in America we are not allowed to protect ourselves. Whats your answer then?
In nearly 11 years of practicing as an RN and 15 years working in healthcare, I have never been assaulted, threatened, or harmed in any way by a patient or a patient's family, and I have never been fearful of my going to work or by what was going to happen in my working environment. I have worked in several states and in multiple practice settings (home care, hospitals, etc.)
I have been sexually harassed a couple times (once by a patient, once by co-worker) and both times the situation was brought to management and handled promptly and appropriately.
I feel sorry that OP has had to deal with what she has had to at work, but I'm not sure that she can speak for all nurses or make the claim that her experiences are commonplace. I have worked with a lot of nurses and healthcare workers through the years and I have never met anyone that has been attacked by a A&O patient/visitor that knew what they were doing, much less been held at gunpoint. We had a very unfortunate death in my facility some years ago -- psychiatrist was shot at close range (and killed) by a delusional psych patient that had come in for an appointment, but these types of situations are rare.
Being treated disrespectfully or rudely as nurses is common. Being attacked is not.
Well good for you ms go-lucky. You are not to speak for others either. Violence in nursing is more commonplace than you think or have experience so please do not discount the experiences of others.
What's selfish about it? I fail to see anything "selfish" about it. That sounds like something Mommy would say: "Now, you stop being so *selfish,* right this instant!"
I see it as a sidebar discussion, an offshoot discussion of the incident. As a nursing student, I certainly want to know how many nurses are shot or injured on the job, because it directly applies to me. I have read through this thread, and I am appalled at what the hospitals apparently expect nurses to "be good little girls" and put up with. Come on, here. If you are in your home, and anyone else in the home behaves in a violent manner, makes the kinds of verbal threats listed here, or brandishes a weapon, you'd be encouraged to pick up the phone and call the police, no? But in a hospital, you are to be diplomatic, and charming, and tolerant, and discrete, and all you get to do is call the hospital security guard??? Sorry, but that's incredible.
Thanks for the thread, OP.> It's one more piece of information that I will chalk up as part of the criteria I use to evaluate a potential employer.
Ok. A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL was shot while performing his job functions. This is horrific in and of itself. Doctors, as well as nurses, are our colleagues and the tragedy of this situation doesn't need to be minimized by someone piggybacking a "well, nurses have it just as bad, but we don't make the news" post. WHO CARES? A physician was seriously wounded!
will never allow anyone to lay a finger on my person without defending myself to the best of my ability - whatever it takes.
As a professional health-care provider, keep in mind the doctrine of minimum force necessary.
I've had a single instance where it was necessary to defend myself and a co-worker from harm. My first year and it was a relatively young resident in LTC (60's), fully intending to embed his leather working awl into either me, or the ARNP. I took him to the floor and we hit hard in full view of the family members present. I disarmed him and continued to restrain his arms and body with my weight until the intervention team arrived.
The resulting investigation, absolved me of using anything other than the "minimum force necessary" despite the claims of the family members to the contrary.
If the guy who just tried to murder you is now helpless on the floor, you are obligated to apply this doctrine.
in nearly 11 years of practicing as an rn and 15 years working in healthcare, i have never been assaulted, threatened, or harmed in any way by a patient or a patient's family, and i have never been fearful of my going to work or by what was going to happen in my working environment. i have worked in several states and in multiple practice settings (home care, hospitals, etc.)
being treated disrespectfully or rudely as nurses is common. being attacked is not.
i envy you, our staff was just threatened to have "all out asses kicked after shift change, and we would be followed out to our cars".
working in an icu, where we bear bad news frequently,,,, this behavior is common place. we are asulted by patients confused or not, family verbally and physically threatens on a weekly basis. my obviously pregnant coworker was told she would have the "**** kicked out of her"... for being a patient advocate and telling the family the patient wanted dnr status.
we are threatened daily. you are lucky that you don't have this on top of the stressors of nursing, but don't dare try to minimize what your nursing peers go through because you're in a safe job that protects you!!!!
being attacked and a code white is common place here.... shame on you poster for trying to minimize our safety issues due to the lack of your own.
As a professional health-care provider, keep in mind the doctrine of minimum force necessary.
I've had a single instance where it was necessary to defend myself and a co-worker from harm. My first year and it was a relatively young resident in LTC (60's), fully intending to embed his leather working awl into either me, or the ARNP. I took him to the floor and we hit hard in full view of the family members present. I disarmed him and continued to restrain his arms and body with my weight until the intervention team arrived.
The resulting investigation, absolved me of using anything other than the "minimum force necessary" despite the claims of the family members to the contrary.
If the guy who just tried to murder you is now helpless on the floor, you are obligated to apply this doctrine.
Thank you for that advice but does minimum force necessary, whatever that means, apply only to nurses? We're not talking about hitting a man when he's down. As far as the law goes one is allowed to use the maximum force necessary to protect life and limb and that of others. Can you imagine someone attacking another nurse with a knife or a gun and one has to decide how much force to use? You move towards a police officer with a pocket knife and you're dead. So why are we held to a higher standard? I guess because we've been trained in Israeli martial arts at nursing school. I'm practicing my karate moves with my fingers right at this moment on the keyboards. Self-preservation first, I say.
working in an icu, where we bear bad news frequently,,,, this behavior is common place. we are asulted ...
being attacked and a code white is common place here.... shame on you poster for trying to minimize our safety issues due to the lack of your own.
show me some statistics that point to that being attacked or threatened in the healthcare setting is common and i'll start listening. it doesn't happen in my place of work and in my large metro area (where i have many nurse friends that work in other hospitals) no hospital around here has the reputation for being unsafe. the downtown county hospital here has metal detectors and a police officer stationed 24 hours/day in the ed because of the prevalence of gang violence in the area and that has worked well.
i also work in icu. patients are frequently unhappy with end of life care and decision making processes, yes, but i haven't had anyone threaten to kick the crap out of me yet for being realistic with them.
Show me some statistics that point to that being attacked or threatened in the healthcare setting is common and I'll start listening. It doesn't happen in my place of work and in my large metro area (where I have many nurse friends that work in other hospitals) no hospital around here has the reputation for being unsafe. The downtown county hospital here has metal detectors and a police officer stationed 24 hours/day in the ED because of the prevalence of gang violence in the area and that has worked well.
I also work in ICU. Patients are frequently unhappy with end of life care and decision making processes, yes, but I haven't had anyone threaten to kick the crap out of me yet for being realistic with them.
We're collecting it now from this thread since it is not commonly reported because we are not worth it. Why are you doubting others experiences? Can't you take us at our word?
caroladybelle, BSN, RN
5,486 Posts
Sorry, but metal detectors are not the answer
JH consists of several city blocks, numerous buildings, over 80 entrances. Many of my pts are going to have metal in them or on them, or devices where metal detectors, other security devices are going to be tripped/problematic. Not to mention cultural issues with searching/scanning.
It is not an airport, where there is a limited area of access and most of the participants are healthy. Nor is it a museum where there are a limited number of employees, and a few doors.
Nor will it eliminate danger. In ALL facilities, there are IV pumps/poles, chair and utensils and other things easily used as weapons. Not to mention, invaribly there is always someone careless with more hazardous equipment.