Atheist or Agnostic?

lorster · Apr 3, 2006

Good luck to you in nursing...I read this & thought wow. I am a Christian & just don't understand how anyone cannot believe in God. I could not make it through one day without the Lord. He does perform miracles & answer prayers. I did not reply to this post to start an argument, but to say there is definately a God & he is alive.

I used to believe in God. I was raised in a christian home. I went to church on Sundays. Throughout my life, I have encountered many negative situations. And through all this, I have not once ever felt the presence of the Lord. I have not seen or met the Lord. I am a very concrete person in that I want proof. I am glad that you feel the presence of the Lord in your life. I read the paper and watch the news and I see and hear what is going on in our world. And much of what is going on has alot to do with religion. The middle east is a good example of this. If you look back on history, many wars have been about religous differences. I have a great deal of respect for those people that practice their religion, 7 days a week. Because we do not believe, does not mean that we are not good people or that we are not spiritual. This is why I don't walk away when being asked to pray. Afterall, it is about the patient and his or her comfort while in my care. When I take care of a patient, I become a part of his or her support system. If me standing silently in prayer, holding hands, honestly being a part of his/her recovery or death, then that is what I do. Like I stated in an earlier post, I am agnostic. Maybe one day I will feel the presence of the Lord and will take my life in a different direction. But for now, in my job, I will continue to care and comfort my patient, no matter what it takes. That is one reason I became a nurse in the first place.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

Funny how fundamentalist Muslims feel the presence of God and know everyone non-Muslim is mistaken. Funny how fundamentalist Christians feel the presence of God and know everyone non-Christian is mistaken. Funny how some orthodox Jews feel the presence of G-d and know all those Muslims and Christians are duped about the messiah having come. Funny how your religion is usually your geography.

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

Belief is a powerful thing.

Let us all just remember that disagreement with a persons beliefs isn't a reflection on the person itself :)

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

I find it interesting that people generally feel comfortable, in fact encouraged to speak about the comfort and strength they feel from their faith. Of course it's good to be free to speak about what brings meaning in your life. My life turned around when I started researching religious history and had the courage to come out of fear and dogma. It enhanced my mental health to get educated about mythology and comparitive religion and give up believing in a god that I never felt. I felt empowered to realize that I don't need a proxy for my own personal strength i.e thinking god must have helped me through something, couldn't do something without the God I never felt anyway. Life has never been so good since I got educated about religion and gave up religion. I find most religion and certainly Christianity to be fear-based. Once you get educated in the history there's no going back.

Well anyway, my life has been greatly enhanced by having the strength to reject religion and notions of any god. I refuse to suspend reason or intellect for any superstitious beliefs. And my life is now healthier and happier for it.

leslie :-D · Apr 3, 2006

i'm glad you're happy, multi.

what one believes should have no bearing on you and vice-versa.

peace,

leslie

lorster · Apr 3, 2006

I find it interesting that people generally feel comfortable, in fact encouraged to speak about the comfort and strength they feel from their faith. Of course it's good to be free to speak about what brings meaning in your life. My life turned around when I started researching religious history and had the courage to come out of fear and dogma. It enhanced my mental health to get educated about mythology and comparitive religion and give up believing in a god that I never felt. I felt empowered to realize that I don't need a proxy for my own personal strength i.e thinking god must have helped me through something, couldn't do something without the God I never felt anyway. Life has never been so good since I got educated about religion and gave up religion. I find most religion and certainly Christianity to be fear-based. Once you get educated in the history there's no going back.
Well anyway, my life has been greatly enhanced by having the strength to reject religion and notions of any god. I refuse to suspect reason or intellect for any superstitious beliefs. And my life is now healthier and happier for it.

You stated that so well.

Focker, CRNA · Apr 3, 2006

In terms of praying for patients, I wouldn't do it, and not just because I'm an atheist. There is recent scientific evidence that prayer is not only ineffective, but potentially harmful.
They're not sure why it might be harmful, but one docctor speculates that it might be that it is demoralizing to some patients.(I suppose if you kept it to yourself this wouldn't be an issue.)

Placebo is a real and powerful effect, and well documented at that. It only makes sense that there is a corollary to the placebo effect that has a detrimental effect on pts. Although placebo effect, in my mind, was more of a neutral or benign thing, not necessarily causing "good" or "bad" stuff...

On another note, I am not religious at all, and generally avoid the topic. I don't really care what anyone else believes and I don't think they have any business in what I believe, regardless of where their religion says I may end up or how hot it is. That said, I have been asked to pray with families of my patients, and complied. I would have felt insensitive had I turned them down for no reason other than that i don't believe in it. I'm sure there were times when I was too busy or had other reasons to decline, and did so, but I am not against being flexible if it could benefit the pt. (or more likely the family) in one way or another.

Have they done any studies on whether the pts. benefit from people praying for them in their presence? I'm sure that its one thing to know people are praying for you/wishing you well and another to see them doing it yourself.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

Have they done any studies on whether the pts. benefit from people praying for them in their presence? I'm sure that its one thing to know people are praying for you/wishing you well and another to see them doing it yourself.

That is an interesting distinction. I'll search one of my sociology databases later this week. I'm studying for exams so I shouldn't be here now! Off the cuff, I think it would depend on many variables. For example, my mother the drama queen southern baptist has had prayer groups pray over her and she has been instantly relieved of whatever her ailment was. But then it comes back. When she gets more attention it gets better. She has a personality disorder. So she is improving because she is highly suggestible and feeds off the attention and she genuinely believes that God is there and healing her.

An agnostic or atheist on the other hand might be wary/uncomfortable and wonder if they are sicker than they think to have god brought into the matter.

Someone else may decide that all the praying makes them ponder if it's time to 'go to god'.

It might give another the immune response to heal.

I think it's a very complicated matter because it would be dependant upon expectations, the perception of the prayer, etc.

Focker, CRNA · Apr 3, 2006

I find it interesting that people generally feel comfortable, in fact encouraged to speak about the comfort and strength they feel from their faith. Of course it's good to be free to speak about what brings meaning in your life. My life turned around when I started researching religious history and had the courage to come out of fear and dogma. It enhanced my mental health to get educated about mythology and comparitive religion and give up believing in a god that I never felt. I felt empowered to realize that I don't need a proxy for my own personal strength i.e thinking god must have helped me through something, couldn't do something without the God I never felt anyway. Life has never been so good since I got educated about religion and gave up religion. I find most religion and certainly Christianity to be fear-based. Once you get educated in the history there's no going back.
Well anyway, my life has been greatly enhanced by having the strength to reject religion and notions of any god. I refuse to suspend reason or intellect for any superstitious beliefs. And my life is now healthier and happier for it.

I find it interesting that you used to be religious and then let it go. It doesn't seem that there are many examples of that happening. You hear and see all the time about the people that "led lives of sin" and then found god/turned their life around/were reborn and became evangelists. One is probably just as common as the other I would imagine, its probably just that someone that doesn't believe in god probably doesn't see the point in trying to convert people to the same belief, so they aren't outspoken about it.

Its funny that what I feel about you thinking the same way I do is probably the same thing a christian thinks when they are around another christian. Same with muslims, jews, etc. That we know something everyone else doesn't. An innate kind of feeling. In my opinion, religion, spirituality, etc. is a part of the evolutionary programming of the human being. An aspect of the pack/tribe mentality that was beneficial for early humans to survive. Help me and I'll help you, religion being one of the ways we identify who is part of our pack/tribe; race, dialect, and behavior being examples of others. Religion has the benefit of coming along with rules to go by and it can easily explain the unexplainable. I could go on forever about stuff like this.

I'm sure none of this is on topic, but I felt inspired by your post to share my thoughts as well and see what people thought.

firstyearstudent · Apr 3, 2006

I find it interesting that people generally feel comfortable, in fact encouraged to speak about the comfort and strength they feel from their faith. Of course it's good to be free to speak about what brings meaning in your life. My life turned around when I started researching religious history and had the courage to come out of fear and dogma. It enhanced my mental health to get educated about mythology and comparitive religion and give up believing in a god that I never felt. I felt empowered to realize that I don't need a proxy for my own personal strength i.e thinking god must have helped me through something, couldn't do something without the God I never felt anyway. Life has never been so good since I got educated about religion and gave up religion. I find most religion and certainly Christianity to be fear-based. Once you get educated in the history there's no going back.
Well anyway, my life has been greatly enhanced by having the strength to reject religion and notions of any god. I refuse to suspend reason or intellect for any superstitious beliefs. And my life is now healthier and happier for it.

I'm am mostly down with everything you are saying. Then about two years ago I found Quakerism and it's really enriched my life. Organized religion can be a great tool for spiritual development. UUs, (Liberal) Quakers and Buddhist generally welcome nontheists.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

I find it interesting that you used to be religious and then let it go. It doesn't seem that there are many examples of that happening. You hear and see all the time about the people that "led lives of sin" and then found god/turned their life around/were reborn and became evangelists. One is probably just as common as the other I would imagine, its probably just that someone that doesn't believe in god probably doesn't see the point in trying to convert people to the same belief, so they aren't outspoken about it.
Its funny that what I feel about you thinking the same way I do is probably the same thing a christian thinks when they are around another christian. Same with muslims, jews, etc. That we know something everyone else doesn't. An innate kind of feeling. In my opinion, religion, spirituality, etc. is a part of the evolutionary programming of the human being. An aspect of the pack/tribe mentality that was beneficial for early humans to survive. Help me and I'll help you, religion being one of the ways we identify who is part of our pack/tribe; race, dialect, and behavior being examples of others. Religion has the benefit of coming along with rules to go by and it can easily explain the unexplainable. I could go on forever about stuff like this.
I'm sure none of this is on topic, but I felt inspired by your post to share my thoughts as well and see what people thought.

I was raised evangelical Southern Baptist and I believed with all my heart. Children do that. Then they go out in the world and decide how much of that world they will let in, you know? You mentioned that there's not too many like me? I think that most people do one of two things:

1) Remain similarly religious like their upbringing.

2) Become basically non-practicing but feel guilty about it.

I jumped the canyon of guilt to outright agnosticism/atheism and don't feel guilty about it. It took a few years. I think that is a little unusual. Even the Dalai Lama says he does not recommend entirely leaving your religion because it's in his words 'too distressing and a bit like vertigo'.

You are correct, the camraderie you and I have on the topic is similar to how two Christians talking, would feel. Except I have a secret fail-proof weapon! I was one of them. I know what they think. I know their arguments. I used to believe them. I used to use them. There's nothing they can do or say that I am not expecting or lack an answer for. My answers are based upon actual reason and knowledge of human history and religious history. Their answers are based upon faith and emotion. Which is valid and to be respected for them. But not when they are trying to evangelize me.

I too think religion is partly an evolutionary response. It's your tribe. It is used to explain the unknown that we hope is good. It is used to control people and societies. I do think that some people have an outright genetic predisposition towards religiosity. Have you read about how epileptics average higher levels of religiosity than the regular population? Something about temporal lobe activity. Anyway, yes I find this fascinating. I think the mother-load of all fascinating religious data for me, was when I found a study that tracked SAT score percentiles converted to IQ and self-identified religion. OMG! So interesting.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2006

I'm am mostly down with everything you are saying. Then about two years ago I found Quakerism and it's really enriched my life. Organized religion can be a great tool for spiritual development. UUs, (Liberal) Quakers and Buddhist generally welcome nontheists.

I agree. Organized religion can be an enriching experience. I myself am Unitarian. I love my Unitarian church. I should draw a distinction between my distain for fundamentalism (of any religion) versus religion that is basically beneficial and not polarizing. You know, the religions where you do not need to suspend reason or intellect or knowledge of human history. Those ones are usually good IMO.