Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

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I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.

I have discovered the following-----DENTAL CARE-she has had several extractions in the past but has not had regular cleaning....All of us in LTC know how dental care is sometimes lacking.Also in this area it is difficult to find a dentist that will come to the LTC or accept MA patients in there office...Its only been 1 yr since we were able to find a dentist willing to come to our LTC-prior to that our residents like Terri went without.....STATEMENTS MADE BY NURSING STAFF-The RN that made the statements in which she quoted Michael has violated Terri's privavcy over and over-she has developed a close relationship with the Mom and Dad out side of her job and is very vocal with the media-I wonder how credible she is? Other staff have reported that "needle marks" were visible on Terri after her parents visited.Obviously the staff that care for Terri is divided in their opinions....HOLY COMMUNION- She has received visits from the parrish priest for over 10 yrs and received "spiritual communion" A priest that became involved with her family within the last 3 yrs went to her facility and wanted to give her communion and was denied permission to put anything in her mouth-Even after this priest spoke with Terri's parrish priest regarding giving "spiritual comunion" he refused to compromise and left...At out LTC our NPO residents receive this same "spiritual communion" No wafer by mouth... (I learned something else the hard way-towards the end of my mothers life she was unable to swallow the wafer-after the priest left I had to clean it out of her mouth.I'm going to Hell because I disposed of it incorrectly.The priest has a ritual they use to dispose of wafers that have fallen to the floor or whatever and it does not include flushing the wafer down the toilet) HUSBANDS NEW FAMILY---Can you all honestly say that if you were in Terri's place YOU would expect your husband to never have another relationship? I don't agree-We see this in our LTC-the "able" spouse visits and otherwise insures their loved one receives the care they require but also seeks companionship or love outside....I really don't have a problem with that- ISOLATION-I can't find any details regarding equipment like wheelchairs.I read that she is kept in her room-to protect and preserve her privacy due to her parents ...In my opinion those videos are a violation and should never have been taken ...............................................................I can rebut most of your statements with information I have found on the web-information that is just as credible as anything found on the websites run by Terri's family....................I believe that artificial feeding IS a heroic measure ............I have not yet read anything here that can convince me that a young woman did not ever say anything about being kept alive this way at some point in her former life......

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Our LTC does have a dentist who comes once a month and the residents have a rotating schedule for teeth cleanings/dental assessments. We have always had this since I started working here almost 7 years ago.

If I was a whistle-blower nurse who saw a patient being mistreated and talked about it, I would be considered a hero. Are we not our patient's advocate? Why question the credibility just because she is talking about mistreatment of someone some of us think should be allowed to dehydrate/starve to death? She's not credible just because we disagree with Terri's parents?

I think it would be an honorable thing to do to stay married and continue to love and care for a disabled spouse. If you choose to do otherwise, I think the honorable thing to do would be to get a divorce.

We are each of us bringing our own thoughts and feelings into this - I would never want to end up in a state like Terri is in but I also do not believe in dehydrating/starving someone. Heroic measures would be ventilation/drugs, etc. Some feel otherwise.

I don't see the harm in letting Terri's parents take over care of their daughter and Michael getting a divorce and getting on with his life. However I do see harm in actively taking someone's life.

steph

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HUSBANDS NEW FAMILY---Can you all honestly say that if you were in Terri's place YOU would expect your husband to never have another relationship?

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I would expect my husband to divorce me before starting another family.

Either his loyalty is with Terri or with this other woman. Not both.

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(I learned something else the hard way-towards the end of my mothers life she was unable to swallow the wafer-after the priest left I had to clean it out of her mouth.I'm going to Hell because I disposed of it incorrectly.

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A priest told you that you were going to hell??

Yeah, right.

Sure he did.

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Specializes in Neuro, NICU.
"Perhaps she would have done better if Michael had allowed more medical intervention, but it is probably a moot point. The point now is what would Terri want."

Perhaps he denied her the care she needed to ensure she could never point the finger at him. In a few articles I've read, early studies of her condition were consistent with brain injuries from being beaten and not with the ravages of an eating disorder. If she were ever to recover, she could tell the world what he did to her and he can't possibly want that. We'll never know what really happened (I don't think she'll recover), but I still think there's enough evidence to question his motives.

He says it's what she would have wanted, but the parents believe differently - who's to say who's wrong and who's right in that case? I don't think either side is really fighting for Terry anymore, they're fighting against one another.

IMHO - the court should assign a guardian ad litem (someone without all the emotional ties) to research her case and make a determination. This person could accept input from both sides, but balance that with information from others (friends, etc.) that may have valuable information about what she would want and go from there.

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"Perhaps she would have done better if Michael had allowed more medical intervention, but it is probably a moot point. The point now is what would Terri want."

Perhaps he denied her the care she needed to ensure she could never point the finger at him. In a few articles I've read, early studies of her condition were consistent with brain injuries from being beaten and not with the ravages of an eating disorder. If she were ever to recover, she could tell the world what he did to her and he can't possibly want that. We'll never know what really happened (I don't think she'll recover), but I still think there's enough evidence to question his motives.

He says it's what she would have wanted, but the parents believe differently - who's to say who's wrong and who's right in that case? I don't think either side is really fighting for Terry anymore, they're fighting against one another.

IMHO - the court should assign a guardian ad litem (someone without all the emotional ties) to research her case and make a determination. This person could accept input from both sides, but balance that with information from others (friends, etc.) that may have valuable information about what she would want and go from there.

I think that is what that new law is all about in the link I posted . . . get Terri her own lawyer, her own legal representation. Murderers and rapists get the benefit of legal representation, why not Terri?

steph

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HUSBANDS NEW FAMILY---Can you all honestly say that if you were in Terri's place YOU would expect your husband to never have another relationship?

______________

I would expect my husband to divorce me before starting another family.

Either his loyalty is with Terri or with this other woman. Not both.

That would be my feeling as well. If my husband became incapacitated, I'd stay married to him and would care for him and would not have another relationship. But that's just me. My marriage vows meant something to me and my husband. In sickness and in health, forsaking all others, until death do us part. I made a promise. I mean to keep it. And so does he.

steph

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I think we are patient advocates bottom line. There is no quality of life there, that I can see from the views the media gives us, is all I have to go by. Let her go, IMHO.

Cheryl

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I think we are patient advocates bottom line. There is no quality of life there, that I can see from the views the media gives us, is all I have to go by. Let her go, IMHO.

Cheryl

The question is WHO gets to determine "quality". All life has value to me. Letting someone go who is getting extreme interventions as in brain dead on a vent .. that is different.

You get into dangerous territory when you let someone else decide "quality".

Ever heard of Peter Singer? :angryfire

steph

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All life is valuable, 100% correct, but why don't you try sitting in a w/c or bed all day for years and all that is keeping you going is that tube, then come back to me about quality of life. I have done LTC for numerous years and it really makes me mad when families think a solution is just to put a tube in a patient with no quality of life, that is selfish period. This woman can only blink her eyes again according to the media. How is this helping anyone? I agree the husband may have motives, but the parents are so determined she is going to live I don't think they are REALLY looking at her quality of life.That is my opinion.

Cheryl

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My personal opinion is that this is no longer about Terri( and has not been for years.) It is a control issue between the spouse and the parents.

Both parties are more concerned with getting thier way then what is best for Terri.

I live in Florida and this story and the proposed bill are the top of the news everyday. This is the second bill put forth( the first,Terri's law, was ruled illegal because it only addressed Terri.) I wrote to our Governor and State Senator suggesting that if this bill is passed, people be able to declare thier status on thier driver's license(as with organ donation) or voter's registration. Not many people are responsible enough (or are in denial) to have the proper paperwork done(POA,Living will,etc.) This would make it easier.

Some type of legislation is necessary but not the bill as it is written now. IF the pt's wishes are not EXPRESSLY known(as yet undetermined what will define expressly) the law will take away a family's right to speak for the pt. The language of the bill is too vague.

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This is why i will be making a video of my wishes in my own words. i will give a copy to the kids, parents, and attorney. SO there is no mis-interpretation. Even living wills can be contested. Its hard to let someone go. Its hard to make that decision. But if its my own decision, in my own words, not writing, i believe it will make it easier. I dont know why they dont do this anyways.....

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