Are Techs And RN's equal in managements eyes?

[Indigomune]

I am new and this is my first post. I have been a surgical tech for 4yrs now, and work 3-11p at a Level One Trauma Center. Taking the evening shift, I became the sole staff employee on this shift, for 3yrs. (only traveling RN's were with me) Suffice to say, I was thrown in daily to some of the most difficult cases surgeons face. And I learned ALOT, about ALOT, and learned QUICK. I had no choice. If I didnt know exactly what each surgeon (albeit ortho, vascular, transplant, neuro, thoracic, plastics, general, etc.) wanted and needed....my experience with the surgeon (my ability to keep up, anticipate, and 'feel in sync' with him/her) wasnt going to be there, leading to frustration on their part and feeling inadequate on my part. So I took notes, read online about surgeries, studied procedure guides, asked alot of questions, and after 4yrs, I have developed a repoire of respect, unprecedented, with ALL of our surgeons (we have 25 OR suites). I am somewhat of an anamoly, as 99% of our techs work the day shift (or are forced to take off-shifts as part of their requirements) and most are uncomfortable outside of their speciality. Our hospital has lost 30 OR techs/nurses over the last 2yrs, to other hospitals, creating such a crisis that management called a meeting last year and urged ANYONE who got another offer, to come to them so they could counteroffer.

So now you have a background.

I have been reviewed yearly and have gotten small raises (.25 here, .40 there) I am at a point, where I feel I am WORTH MORE because of my versatility, my excellent repoire, and the fact that my managers have witnessed even the most demanding surgeons request me in their room.

I recently was 'approached' by another area hospital (whose employees work with us hourly and passed my name along), and was offered $2 more an hour. Now, I am COMFORTABLE working where I am and I dont WANT to leave. So I did what I remember management saying. I went to them.

I spoke with our HR nurse recruiter....who, told me that she was THE PERSON who made salary decisions, and was SO GLAD that I was coming to her before taking another offer and leaving.

By the end of the conversation, she told me that she had to get 'approval' from her supervisor (a mysterious person whos name HAS NEVER BEEN MENTIONED TO ANYONE, EVER)

BUT, she assured, she forsaw no problem (as the mystery person is quick to respond to these situations)

The next day, her story changed again.

Now, she confided in me, that the 'mystery person' had a biased opinion of my position, (which she said she disagreed with) IF I were an RN....it would be a different story. IF AN RN GETS A BETTER OFFER SOMEWHERE ELSE, THEY REACT IMMEDIATELY WITH AN EQUAL OR BETTER OFFER.

I was told that no 'TECH' had ever come to management with another offer. So, she compared my situation to a situation involving a Nurse Managers secretary, who asked for more money, and 'the mystery person' dragged it out for weeks, but eventually the secretary got her raise. Two days later, my OR director mentioned to me that he was getting alot of talk from 'suits and ties' about my plight, and that although what I was doing might help techs in the future, it probably wasnt going to help me. very strange.

A week later, not hearing anything (but assured I would), I called the HR recruiter, who told me my answer was no. But that they were 'looking into an across the board' change. I was now told that giving me a raise would throw the 'internal whatever' off. Something they couldnt do. (Did she forget she told me they DO THIS EVERYDAY for RN's?)

My plight here, is I was basically told flat out that because my position is not considered VALUABLE to administration, I can walk out the door.

"But we hope you will stay" was my goodbye.

Yes, I CAN walk and take another job, and might, but that isnt my POINT

IS THIS A TRUE CASE OF DISCRIMINATION? It certainly FEELS like it?

I know that to take it farther, will be my demise within the company.

I know how politics work. They'd crush me, deny they ever said anything discriminatory, and Id end up blacklisted from the community.

If anyone has experienced anything like this, or has any input, Id greatly appreciate it

[purple1953reading]

I think the phase is to phase out techs, in or, or even those on the floor. Several years our rural hospital went to all licensed personel, this stareted a great upheaval when all the LPNs thought they were being looked at as AIDES. Griped they did not know why they even went to school, to give baths, bedpans, serve trays andmake beds. WELL there is that same old saga... The problem is that many institutions are using techs, and Lpns outside their scope of nursing, perhaps not their own personal knowledge basis, or capability, but then after doing that for awhile, all of a sudden, want to reduce their duties, and then the people rebel and feel used, and neglected. Several years ago, I went to work at a rural hospital, who had only recently caught up their salary levels to be more near the norm. BUT LPNS who had worked there only 2 years, were making less than CNAS who had been there over 20, and new LPNS were being hired at $3-$4 hourly more, in accordance with the new salary registry. MADE NO SENSE

THere will always be a tech who is beyond the RN in charge of her, but the law is the law. AND I AGREE training RNS by unlicensed personnel adds insult to injury. I often think that I make more points with a disgruntled staff by OFFERING them a raise in my reconginition of their giving, hard work,etc,EVEN IF IT IS MUCH LESS than what they would have requested, if I waited for them to come to me and ask and point out their own attributes.

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

I guess I am biased on the topic or RN's and techs but this is a classical example of someone not trained to do a job being allowed to go outside their expertise and now wanting the same pay and recognition as the RN. The first poster is a competent scrub tech. Obviously knows their stuff about SCRUBBING. The second poster I took an interest in with the music degree Spyder is again competent at their job but again due to staff shortages, idiot RN's who dont realise that the buck stops with them so matter , has been placed in a position they shouldent have been placed in EVER. And forgive me Spyder, theres always a choice like "I am not qualified to run an OR, I do not have the necessary qualifications to do so, this hospital could get sued by a patient if it was discovered that a tech with a music degree is running the place", at least that is what I would have said and then refused to come on shift until a qualified member of staff was around. So yes there was a choice.

Anyway my point if I can get to it is that, I truly believe that theres not a tech out there who cant become an RN. So instead of trying to make equal money by scrubbing well for the surgeons and becoming their favourite person because you can anticipate their every need, or instead of taking charge when it must be quite inappropriate for you to do so and telling us that even if the RN was there you would be given the responsibility, go and do your RN. PLEASE, GO AND DO YOUR RN AND STOP TRYING TO SAY A TECH IS THE SAME. ITS NOT IN THE EYES OF MANAGEMENT, ITS NOT IN THE EYES OR YOUR CO WORKERS WHO ARE RN'S AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT ITS NOT THE SAME IN THE EYES OR PATIENTS. For those techs who choose to stay as techs, enjoy their jobs and respect the difference between us, I salute you.

Fantastic post.

[RN Zeke]

Respect for education and what each degree, diploma means goes a long way.

Go get that degree, I did after many years as a tech. I can speak educated about tech's and RN's for I am both. Working together as a team should be the priority, to have an outcome that will benefit all.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

Working together as a team should be the priority, to have an outcome that will benefit all.

Exactly

[Scrubby]

This is an interesting subject. Where i work surgical technician is a very dirty word. Unless there is a drastic change in management we will never have techs.

I've read a few posts here about surgical techs and RN's. Personally as someone who loves to scrub and wishes to keep doing so, i admit i feel very threatened by the prospect of techs being introduced. I read a post here about how RNs in some places only circulate.

I agree that if you wish to have more prospects then maybe doing your RN training is a better option.

I really don't know much about techs BTW. What does the training involve? Does it involve just knowing the procedure and the surgical instrument? Or is it more holistic and takes into account everything that needs to be done for your patient in the operating room, positioning aids etc?

[ewattsjt]

i noticed that many posts are quoting law. remember that different states have different laws. (ie. only 37 states have laws protecting the circulator role). going to other countries make the differences even worse. in indiana you can only sue your employer under certain circumstances. basically you must prove they have harmed you and the harm was with intent.

regardless, a tech is not and will never be equal in management's eyes because they are not. the comparison is apples to oranges. as a tech, one should know when they are going outside their scope of practice.

i'm not trying to hijack the thread, just answering scrubby's question.

i really don't know much about techs btw. what does the training involve? does it involve just knowing the procedure and the surgical instrument? or is it more holistic and takes into account everything that needs to be done for your patient in the operating room, positioning aids etc?

unfortunately there are a couple types of surgical technologists.

1) there is the on the job trained [ojt].

2) there are program techs that are not certified and can not sit for the cst exam, the programs lasts 9 mths to a year.

3) there is the certified surgical technologist [cst] which sits for the national certification exam given by the national board of surgical technology and surgical assisting [nbstsa] www.nbstsa.org . this is becoming the standard as over 33% of all surgical technologists are certified in this manner. some facilities require that the surgical techs be certified by this organization. my facility is one that has this requirement. the school is either a diploma or associate degree. there is a core curriculum that is followed and accreditation given by the commission on accreditation of allied health education programs [caahep] www.caahep.org . accreditation and the program are monitored by the accreditation review committee on education for surgical technology [arc-st] www.arcst.org . the program for this one lasts from 9 mths to two years. the degree is a diploma or associate degree. most associate degree techs have one to one and a half years of prerequisites (program prerequisites vary but mine was the same as nursing in my area having a&p 1 & 11, pharmacology, microbiology, psychology, speech, interpersonal communication, algebra, chemistry, english, medical law and ethics, medical terminology). there is also one year of studying surgical techniques and clinical sites. they learn everything from patient positioning, prep, foley to instrumentation to aseptic techniques, to suture and needles use, surgery type, classification, surgeon anticipation etc... all surgical procedures and specialties are taught. ie. ent, eyes, neuro, ortho, cv/pv, plastics, general, ob/gyn, endoscopies, etc...

[RN Zeke]

Very well, informed information! Wearing the hats (no pun intended), of both positions, I never had a problem with who is the boss.