Are LPN's being phased out?

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VioletKaliLPN, LPN

1 Article; 448 Posts

LPN here. We were taught that it is not common practice to inflate the balloon prior to foley insertion. One hospital in our area used to have the opposite policy, then changed their policy to "no inflation".

jimthorp

jimthorp

496 Posts

I was taught in school to check inflate. That was 2004-2005. Our company does not have a policy either way.

jimthorp

jimthorp

496 Posts

Not just the dirty gloves but the RN had to have an LPN walk her through the s/p cath change

tothepointeLVN

tothepointeLVN, LVN

Specializes in Hospice / Ambulatory Clinic. Has 3 years experience. 2,246 Posts

Yeah they still teach in schools to inflate or they did in 08. I mean being that your ADON didn't bother with sterile technique I'm going to assume her not inflating is due to laziness rather than being up on the latest techniques.

Though maybe she predates sterile technique.?

wearingmanyhats

wearingmanyhats, RN

Has 23 years experience. 140 Posts

Here in south east PA, many (most) of the hospitals have started phasing out LPNs... as another poster mentioned, they are looking for Magnet status...

AZMOMO2

AZMOMO2

Specializes in Cardiac Care. 1,194 Posts

I recently left an LTC that is trying to convert to more Rehab than LTC and they are replacing all of the LPNs with RNs. I left before all the changes but this is how it has gone down since then...

As they overwhelmed the LPNs with more and more residents, and less help, and more and more tasks to do each shift, they, being older nurses, left, to be replaced with new grad RNs. The LPNs that did not leave, were fired for one reason or another, r/t increase in above mentioned duties. On staff now are two LPNs, 1 is retiring, and 1 is retaking her NCLEX-RN for the third time. Previous to this there were 3 RNs in the whole place not counting the DON/ADON.

These new grad RNs are getting short orientations ( 3-4 shifts) and when I spoke with a few when I went back to visit a resident I heard the same phrase come out of both of their mouths, " When I get some experience I am getting out of here and into acute care."

Hummm... they may be able to phase out LPNs due to the economy and the lack of Hospitals hiring new grad RNs... but they will be sorry when their staff leaves for greener pastures.

Seas

Seas

Specializes in Telemetry, OB, NICU. Has 4 years experience. 519 Posts

LPN's may not be totally phased out for long years, you never know. And there are always exceptions.

But yes, LPN's are being phased out. Everybody should wake up and realize that BSN's MSN's and higher degrees are now mentioned. That's what everybody's talking about, hiring managers (especially hospitals) wise I mean. What is LPN compared to this? What would make LPN a better candidate for hiring? It is not even a degree. I am not saying this to belittle anybody; I am not saying this is good, or this is bad, I mean that's just the truth. Why would a hospital hire LPN while there are many applicants with degrees? How many hospitals hire LPN's? Yes, LPN's are phased out.

I am a RN with ADN degree, graduated less than a year ago. I am hurrying and getting my BSN, then maybe MSN. Because I personally believe in higher education.

I hope nobody comes into my post to argue. This is my opinion, and I am not going to argue with anyone.

tothepointeLVN

tothepointeLVN, LVN

Specializes in Hospice / Ambulatory Clinic. Has 3 years experience. 2,246 Posts

I hope nobody comes into my post to argue. This is my opinion, and I am not going to argue with anyone.

That's pretty much an open invitation right there.

The reality is that once the economy settles down RN's are not going to want to do our jobs for the price they pay us to do it. Full Stop.

Butterflybee

Butterflybee

447 Posts

Ive heard that this has been the talk for years. Imho, with med techs I DO think there is an attempt to phase out the LPN in some places for economical reasons. That being said, I dont think that will ever be the case completely because of the legal aspect as med techs arent licensed. Also there are people in charge (Ive been told) that will not hire med techs for whatever reason.

Ive always found a job. However, I am going back to school to further my education in nursing. Med techs have altered the hiring climate for the LPN...

HazelLPN, LPN

Specializes in Adult ICU/PICU/NICU. Has 54 years experience. 490 Posts

LPN's may not be totally phased out for long years, you never know. And there are always exceptions.

What would make LPN a better candidate for hiring? It is not even a degree. I am not saying this to belittle anybody; I am not saying this is good, or this is bad, I mean that's just the truth. Why would a hospital hire LPN while there are many applicants with degrees? How many hospitals hire LPN's? Yes, LPN's are phased out.

I am a RN with ADN degree, graduated less than a year ago. I am hurrying and getting my BSN, then maybe MSN. Because I personally believe in higher education.

I hope nobody comes into my post to argue. This is my opinion, and I am not going to argue with anyone.

Why would a hospital hire an LPN (or diploma educated RN for that matter) even though they do not have have a degree?

Simple. They might be excellent nurses and the best fit for that position. The degree does not make you a better nurse than an LPN or a diploma prepared RN. (talk to some nurses who trained in the old diploma schools sometime and learn that it wasn't so easy). In some states, LPNs are allowed a broad scope of practice and are still useful in acute care facilities.

I had very few limitations and there was little that my RN charge nurse had to do for my patients that I could not do myself. I titrated my own drips, pushed my own IVP meds, had patients on vents, HFO, ECMO, CRRT, swan caths, IABps etc.

For example, lets say a local PICU is experiencing high acuity and high census and they are seeking nurses to work part time or contingent to help out who can work with very little orientation. Applying is an LPN with over 30 years of adult ICU experience who comes with excellent references from her nurse manager, head intensivist and director or nursing...and there is a young ADN or BSN with several months experience. Needless to say, the degree is special, but it does not make that nurse a good fit for that position. Ive said it before, experience is the best teacher.

Formal education is extremely important to the image of nursing as a profession. I tell all young people to get that BSN straight out of high school if possilbe as it will give them the most options in their career. I'm also quick to point out that it won't make them a better nurse. Good nursing comes with experience, natural talent and intelligence, and a passion for what one is doing to motivate them to learn on their own that no amount of formal education can give to you.

I do think that LPNs will be phased out eventually, as the SENs were in Great Britian in the 1990s. I also think that ADN/ASN nurses will be phased out (diploma RN programs are already nearly extinct). I hope the phasing out will be done tastefully. Respect the LPNs/diploma RNs/ADN/ASNs currently in practice, but train no more. Replace them via attrition vs kicking them to the curb. I am not hopeful, however, as magnet status has already dictated that LPNs are too expensive and they replace them with cheaper UAPS leaving more work for the RNs and more money for the CEO.

Best to you,

Mrs. H

Edited by HazelLPN

tothepointeLVN

tothepointeLVN, LVN

Specializes in Hospice / Ambulatory Clinic. Has 3 years experience. 2,246 Posts

The phasing out of the ADN level and leaving just LPN/LVN's and BSN prepared RN's makes the most sense. Your going to need the LPN's for the LTC/Home Health setting it's hard to get round that. So it makes sense to make more distinction between the two levels rather than having different entry levels for RN's

The biggest barrier I think is the way the schools are structured. Most RN programs in my city are ADN programs at community college. A community college can't simply upgrade their program to a BSN because they usually are not 4 year degree granting schools. Theres going to be a bottle neck. Community colleges picked up when the diploma programs phased out but who will pick up the slack if the community college can no longer make nurses. The State University systems are already impacted and private colleges are not a practical option.

nursel56

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty. Has 46 years experience. 7,039 Posts

LPN's may not be totally phased out for long years, you never know. And there are always exceptions.

But yes, LPN's are being phased out. Everybody should wake up and realize that BSN's MSN's and higher degrees are now mentioned.

Very true. On the other hand, many new categories of unlicensed assistive personnel are also mentioned. The entire healthcare delivery workforce is in a state of flux. People who study these issues for a living would probably tell you that a snapshot in time is insufficient to provide enough data to make an accurate prediction. We are presently experiencing a recession and unemployment rates in numbers only exceeded by a handful of events in the last 150 years.

That's what everybody's talking about, hiring managers (especially hospitals) wise I mean. What is LPN compared to this?

Unlike other commodities and services, nurses or nursing skills positions must be filled with someone. Who that someone is will change with time. If you research the LPN vs RN scopes of practice in a state, you'll find that legally (vs hospital policies) there are not very many things an LPN can't do. They are not going to leave those positions unfilled while they wait for enough BSN and Master's Degree nurses to apply for the job as a staff nurse providing bedside care.

What would make LPN a better candidate for hiring?

Not enough RNs in the applicant pool? That will happen again. Lower rate of pay? Perhaps but the corollary to an oversupply of something (in this case new grads) is stagnation/depression of wages -- anyone who thinks corporations won't act on that out of the goodness of their hearts is living in la-la land. Other factors would be things like experience in the desired area, personality, exceptional written and oral communication skills, and something you can't really define in words. "A good fit" for a particular unit.

LPNs/LVNs normally work in rehabs, SNFs, ALFs, and LTC facilities and as PDNs in home health. In the longer term, the rapidly aging "Baby Boomer" generation should create quite a demand for facilities/services like that. Hence, more employment for LPNs, although the same qualifier with respect to the UAP jobs would apply in this case, too -- the wage difference would be less. I'm sure they will hire RNs too if they can afford it, but I get the impression that most new grads prefer to work elsewhere. It's safe to say there will be an exodus of people leaving when the more attractive (in their eyes) jobs open up.

It is not even a degree. I am not saying this to belittle anybody; I am not saying this is good, or this is bad, I mean that's just the truth.

Prior to the early 70s, every nurse working "didn't even have a degree". One of my favorite subjects is nursing history. You would be amazed at what people were able to accomplish through committment to lifelong learning, sheer initiative, a sharp mind, courage, persistence, and many other laudable qualities. True, they didn't even have a degree. They taught the first wave of BSN faculty how to be a nurse, which is much more than a degree.

If you have a degree and set it up on your shelf to look pretty (not saying you would do this) it will become less and less meaningful. I prefer to think of nursing as a process of education that never ends. There are as many ways to advance as there are unique personalities in nursing. You only need to study Jean Watson to understand that concept. I hope nursing education goes in the direction of letting people start to specialize and have something akin to a residency so hospitals don't have to do it themselves, further tightening the new grad job market.