Are we in danger of being forced out of healthcare all together?

[KMSRN]

And please lose the inane nursing diagnoses... Sorry

[Presumed Stupid]

"and immigration restrictions for foreign nurses. Just pull any Jack or Jill off the street and train them in 10 weeks to do our job. Oh, at 1/4 of our wages."

I have red many comments from 'American Nurses' but this one takes the cake. I have a 4 year bachelor's degree in nursing and finished your NCLEX-RN in 75 questions, and passed it the first time I might add. It is my dream to work in the USA as a RN, so it is with curtain degree of sadness that I post this message to all the skeptics out there.

Don't not fall for the oldest trick in the book, if corporate America is cheating you with salaries stagnation tactics don't confuse us as the all too easy culprits. Rather see it for what it is.

Just a thought

p.s. "every one deserves a place in the sun."

:kiss

[ainz]

True--there are many very capable nurses from other countries who would jump at the chance to practice in the USA.

[Todd SPN]

I just did a quick scope of this tread, and I get a lot more out of it than a slap at foreign nurses. We have problems in this profession that are many and complicated. Keep in mind, if you come here to practice these same problems will affect you. BTW, I hope you realize your dream.

[-jt]

And Im one of the many who cant do those basic math calculations. Why is this so sad? Its a disability Ive learned to live with & compensate for. My brother has it much worse - his dyslexia prevents him from doing words - but hes a genius with numbers. I have to rely on calculators and computerized IV pumps. I let the machines figure it all out, and then have a colleague who is more number-literate than I to double check it for me. So what. I agree with you theres a problem if a nurse doesnt know the rationale for what she is doing, but are you also saying that not being able to calculate mathematics without help makes us bad nurses?

[Tiki_Torch]

This thread is full of food for thought! I just wish I had some answers for us all!!!

Re: foreign nurses: I have absolutely no problem working with foreign nurses because I've done so many times and thoroughly enjoyed them all. What does worry me though is the probability that our "government" would plan to solve our nursing shortage by recruiting foreign nurses. My main problem with that is this: Who the heck is going to care for the patients in foreign lands when the majority of their nurses make a mass exodus for the good ole USA? For crying out loud, each country should be able to supply the majority of nurses needed for their own citizens.

Aaarrrrgggghhh!

An unsurmountable problem? I have been out of nursing for 3 years now and have been dusting off my resume and boning up on my nursing literature in hopes of returning to the field this Fall. I want to do more to help our profession advance but feel so ineffective! I once heard that nurses make up the largest percentage of workers in the US and that if we could all truly get together all at once, our effects could be truly awesome. How can we do this when most of us are exhausted from working ourselves to the bone, caring for children and parents, and falling into bed at the end of the day without an ounce of energy left for aiding our profession's health? I can't see us making a "million nurse march on Washington" when we all have to be back at work in 8 hours...

What is the answer to our problems?

Setting ourselves apart: I understand that all RNs being BSNs would be a start to putting us on a "professional" level, but schooling takes even more time and we need help now (while we work on our BSNs). I also agree that if we looked like nurses in our units that it would most likely set us apart... make us more special to people we interact with. The last time I worked on a floor we all wore the same uniform... Nurse Manager, RNs, LPNs, Nursing Assistants, Unit Secretary, Dietary Assistants and Environmental Services staff. For heaven's sake, the only folks that wore something to make them look "special" were the administrators, doctors, social workers, and maintenance crew!

I'll shut up before I get my blood pressure up to high.

If nothing else, it's great to know there are other people in this world who care about our profession. Many thanks to everyone who has posted to this thread.:kiss

[KarafromPhilly]

Originally posted by -jt

And Im one of the many who cant do those basic math calculations. Why is this so sad? Its a disability Ive learned to live with & compensate for. My brother has it much worse - his dyslexia prevents him from doing words - but hes a genius with numbers. I have to rely on calculators and computerized IV pumps. I let the machines figure it all out, and then have a colleague who is more number-literate than I to double check it for me. So what. I agree with you theres a problem if a nurse doesnt know the rationale for what she is doing, but are you also saying that not being able to calculate mathematics without help makes us bad nurses?

I think she's saying that the inability to manage simple arithmetic and basic algebra without help would tend to indicate grave intellectual limitations. I don't think she's necessarily talking about a person who knows how to figure out the dose, drip rate, etc. and has someone else look at it also. Double checking calculations is a good habit, after all.

I personally worked with a GN who truly scared me. We were looking over the patient's MAR and she had a Q12 IVPB that had been given at one PM. When I asked this GN when we would hang the next dose, she COUNTED ON HER FINGERS and said, "Seven o'clock?" I KID YOU NOT. She has failed the NCLEX twice yet somehow managed to graduate from a well-regarded ADN program. Let's all hope she never passes.

[ainz]

-jt,

You mentioned the salary difference in a new ADN at $56K and a staff physician at $800K.

The physician is viewed as one that generates revenue, or money, for the hospital. As such, the physician is highly valued and seen as a money-maker, not a money-spender; or in more appropriate terms, the physician is a revenue generator and not a mere consumer of resources and the nurse is seen as a line-item expense, hourly, blue collar worker that is easily replaced.

I am not agreeing with nor defending this attitude. I am simply stating this is the REALITY that nurses must learn how to deal with effectively.

We have to show our financial contribution to the hospital if we are ever going to change the way people in charge of hospitals view us. It is absolutely useless to become criticize, argue, become defensive, and waste our energy on non-productive activities. We have to begin engaging in activities that will produce results for the LONG-TERM. In my opinion, unions do not do this for us. They may help for the short term but this does not address the basic issues that keep nursing where it is today.

Let us also not forget that nursing has made some significant gains over the years, so, things can change but we must go about is intelligently and effectively, not filled with emotion and spinning our wheels doing things that will never help.

I have many specific suggestions of how to begin this process but not many people seem interested in reading them nor actually beginning to do them in their hospitals etc. That is sad. In my hospital, we have eliminated the need for agency nurses and actually have a waiting list of RNs that want to come to work here. I will be happy to share with anyone how this was achieved.

[RNIAM, BSN, RN]

ainz

What are you ideas? how can they work. I am all for it if I know what to do.

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

ainz, would love to hear your ideas.

I've been a nurse for ten years and don't make anywhere near 56k, though!

[jnette, ASN, EMT-I]

Originally posted by Hellllllo Nurse

ainz, would love to hear your ideas.

I've been a nurse for ten years and don't make anywhere near 56k, though!

Me too. Count me in. Itemize, and make them "workable" in various situations... gotta remember the dialysis clinics out there, too, where some of us work... owned by megawhoppers who see nothing BUT the bottom line ! So, yes, I'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas, especially if they're applicable in more areas than one.

And yes, I too, can't even IMAGINE 56K.... don't forget the nurses(yes, RNs) out there who still are barely breaking 20K ! :stone

[jnette, ASN, EMT-I]

more thoughts on this.. (sorry!)

While I can agree with most of what's been said above... about BSN as entry level for any true profession, (and yes, Im an ADN), most definately about professional appearance and demeanor... I can't help but wonder.. would it make any difference in the long run?

If nurses are still considered a line item expence and not generating revenue, would this then not be a further detriment?

What if all nurses were to go for their BSN, and receive all the "specailized training" mentioned above... who would truly be interested in employing these nurses who would then also expect and require far greater compensation... which they don't even want to pay us what we're worth NOW? Would they not then be even more apt to hire those less educated, or seek to "dumb down" the requirements and skill levels of nurses in order to manage the "bottom line"? If we were so highly educated, they could afford us even less !

I agree that there are areas where we could stand improvement, but can't help but wonder if it would come back to haunt us, or worse...BITE us in the end ! In THEIR eyes, we would not have changed.., we would continue to be viewed as "just nurses"... only now more costly ones. "THEY" need to work on changing THEIR perception of the nurse as well ! And until they do, I think there is little that we can do... no matter how much more we educate ourselves... we'll end up overeducating ourselves for little reward.. perhaps even out of a "job".. as long as to them it is just that.. a "job".

Just food for thought.