Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally?

sunflower83b · Oct 22, 2017

I think good information is available to lay persons now, and I'm not sure it was always the case or that it was presented in a way that seemed as compelling as the information presented by the anti-vaccine side.
Example: Parents often ask why the vaccines must be given on this particular schedule - and believed that this would overwhelm the baby's immune system. It was pretty common to hear a response like, "Your baby is exposed to multiple germs every day - hundreds or thousands! Even eating food introduces germs!"
That's fine and good (and true), but it's not going to make sense to the parent because the parent isn't dealing with a feverish, fussy and/or "lethargic" baby every time the baby "eats food." It makes perfect sense to them that the immune system could be overwhelmed because clearly something is different; the child is acting a little different.
[by the way, this same rhetoric is still available though reputable online sources; I know it's factual, but I call it rhetoric because it isn't answering the underlying unspoken question, which is, "why does my baby act so punky after getting immunizations, and is that okay?"]
I was once told at my doctor's office that vaccines don't cause fever. I had inquired whether it would be okay to give a dose of acetaminophen prior to the visit - and was told it was unnecessary because if my baby had a fever after the previous set of vaccines, it must've been a coincidence.
Misinformation and information delivered in a paternalistic manner breeds mistrust in people who simply feel very responsible for taking care of a tiny baby.
I really wonder if more respectful, forthright discussions could have helped, especially before wide use of "Dr. Google." Back then, if you happened to come across Dr. Sears' book - you just might end up giving it all a lot of thought.
No need to be a conspiracy theorist at all.
BTW, everyone I am responsible for is FULLY vaccinated, on time. :)

I agree completely about listening and building trust with parents. Disrespect, or indignation about parent's questions and choices will not help to get kids vaccinated, it will put a further divide between the medical community and the parent.

RunnerNurse09, BSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

I am not anti vaccine at all, but I do really question the validity of pushing things such as the flu vaccine and gardasil. The flu vaccine effectiveness is usually under 50%, and the powers that be push it like its eradicating the flu altogether. I agree those that are elderly and at high risk for complications should receive it, but that's it. As far as gardasil is concerned, how about promote regular exams and PAP's by a gynecologist? Vaccines such as MMR and others are necessary, but I feel as if the flu vaccine and gardasil is more about making money. And no, I do not voice my personal beliefs to patients.

JKL33 · Oct 22, 2017

She said when she had discussed her questions about it with their pediatrician, she simply said, "Don't you wear your seatbelt??? It's the same thing."

An excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about.

It makes no sense to ever talk about vaccines in this pompous/sarcastic/demeaning tone. If people think you're simply taking them for idiots they aren't going to listen to a word you say, and rightfully so.

Not to mention it doesn't appear to say very much for your scientific case if you can't even think of a logical response to what has to be a VERY common question.

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

I am not anti vaccine at all, but I do really question the validity of pushing things such as the flu vaccine and gardasil.... As far as gardasil is concerned, how about promote regular exams and PAP's by a gynecologist? Vaccines such as MMR and others are necessary, but I feel as if the flu vaccine and gardasil is more about making money. And no, I do not voice my personal beliefs to patients.

I did have regular Paps. In fact, it was the regular Paps that caught my cervical cancer, and we were able to treat it by JUST removing my cervix and uterus, rather than having to ALSO undergo chemo and/or radiation (I had years of regular colpos, biopsies, LEEPs and cryotreatment prior to the hyst).

I have HPV. And the HPV caused my cervical cancer. I wish Gardasil was around when I was a teen/young adult.

Regular Paps will not prevent cervical dysplasia caused by HPV from happening. It will just help catch it before it kills you.

allnurses Guide · Oct 22, 2017

I am not anti vaccine at all, but I do really question the validity of pushing things such as the flu vaccine and gardasil. The flu vaccine effectiveness is usually under 50%, and the powers that be push it like its eradicating the flu altogether. I agree those that are elderly and at high risk for complications should receive it, but that's it. As far as gardasil is concerned, how about promote regular exams and PAP's by a gynecologist? Vaccines such as MMR and others are necessary, but I feel as if the flu vaccine and gardasil is more about making money. And no, I do not voice my personal beliefs to patients.

The flu vaccine overall effectiveness is around 40-70%. Different strains in the flu vaccine have different effectiveness rates with some routinely being 80-90%. It also is a matter of age. Young healthy adults will have much higher effectiveness rates than geriatrics, but effectiveness rates are often quoted as the average for all flu strains and ages together. As healthcare professionals is extremely important for us to get flu vaccine since it has the highest possibility to be most effective in our age category, and it protects our patients who are least likely for the flu vaccine to be effective.

The HPV vaccines are necessary to prevent certain cancers such as cervical, member, and throat. Approximately 1 in 4 Americans are HPV positive. There are no amount of regular paps and gyn visits are going to be anywhere near as effective as getting the HPV vaccine. The HPV vaccine is effectively the cure most HPV caused cancers. A Pap smear will do nothing but catch cancer/abnormal cell hopefully before it spreads. Also, children can catch HPV through the lady parts. I have had to anestheisize young adults repeatedly for vocal cord nodules/Papillomas from HPV they caught from their mother. You can also catch HPV as healthcare worker by being exposed to laser fumes during wart removal from warts caused by HPV.

allnurses Guide · Oct 22, 2017

The only thing that has shown to significantly increase vaccination rates is mandatory vaccine laws. It is the right thing to discuss all treatments with patients in a professional manner and in a way they will understand. We also have to be realistic and realize that most patients who refuse to vaccinate have already made up their minds long before they come to thier healthcare provider. They are then just looking for an excuse to validate their decision. That decision can be as simple as saying "they don't listen to me or they don't want to take my information off the internet seriously".

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

I said earlier that I used to be anti-vaccine. I don't want anyone to interpret that as I am now PRO-vaccine. I strongly believe that we give too many, too soon, and all at the same time. I selectively and delayed vaccines with all of my kids, starting vaccines between ages 3-5. I'm still catching my 9-year-old up on some vaccines, and I opted to NOT vaccinate all of my kids for a few of them, and for others, waited until they were closer to puberty. But I see value in most of them, I just wish the US vaccine schedule was closer to those in many European countries, and that we didn't give so many, so young.

RunnerNurse09, BSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

I did have regular Paps. In fact, it was the regular Paps that caught my cervical cancer, and we were able to treat it by JUST removing my cervix and uterus, rather than having to ALSO undergo chemo and/or radiation (I had years of regular colpos, biopsies, LEEPs and cryotreatment prior to the hyst).
I have HPV. And the HPV caused my cervical cancer. I wish Gardasil was around when I was a teen/young adult.
Regular Paps will not prevent cervical dysplasia caused by HPV from happening. It will just help catch it before it kills you.

I had HPV and severe cervical dysplasia that was diagnosed while I was pregnant. I opted to wait until after delivery to have it removed because of risk of miscarriage. As I recall, my Dr stated cervical dysplasia and cancer is slow progressing. So if that is the case, why a vaccine that causes a belief that it's fast progressing?

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

As I recall, my Dr stated cervical dysplasia and cancer is slow progressing. So if that is the case, why a vaccine that causes a belief that it's fast progressing?

A vaccine cannot "cause a belief" - I guess I don't understand what you're asking.

Are you saying that because it's a slow-growing cancer, then there is no value in a vaccine that prevents it? What about all those women who do not have access to regular preventive healthcare, and will die of cervical cancer because they CANNOT get regular Paps? Or women who cannot afford all the procedures necessary to control/stop dysplasia (because Paps do not stop or cure it, it just detects it)?

**LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM** · Oct 22, 2017

I had HPV and severe cervical dysplasia that was diagnosed while I was pregnant. I opted to wait until after delivery to have it removed because of risk of miscarriage. As I recall, my Dr stated cervical dysplasia and cancer is slow progressing. So if that is the case, why a vaccine that causes a belief that it's fast progressing?

Why not gladly accept the vaccine that prevents the cancer in the first place???

RunnerNurse09, BSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

The flu vaccine overall effectiveness is around 40-70%. Different strains in the flu vaccine have different effectiveness rates with some routinely being 80-90%. It also is a matter of age. Young healthy adults will have much higher effectiveness rates than geriatrics, but effectiveness rates are often quoted as the average for all flu strains and ages together. As healthcare professionals is extremely important for us to get flu vaccine since it has the highest possibility to be most effective in our age category, and it protects our patients who are least likely for the flu vaccine to be effective.
The HPV vaccines are necessary to prevent certain cancers such as cervical, member, and throat. Approximately 1 in 4 Americans are HPV positive. There are no amount of regular paps and gyn visits are going to be anywhere near as effective as getting the HPV vaccine. The HPV vaccine is effectively the cure most HPV caused cancers. A Pap smear will do nothing but catch cancer/abnormal cell hopefully before it spreads. Also, children can catch HPV through the lady parts. I have had to anestheisize young adults repeatedly for vocal cord nodules/Papillomas from HPV they caught from their mother. You can also catch HPV as healthcare worker by being exposed to laser fumes during wart removal from warts caused by HPV.

Read post above. Sorry , still not sold on the HPV vaccine. The effectiveness of the flu vaccine is a shot in the dark because it's a guessing game as to what strain is going around. I have gotten the flu the same year as getting the vaccine, so that year it wasn't effective. So it did nothing for the patients I took care of when I was contagious before I knew I had it.

I am immune to certain strains. Learned that last year's after taking care of 3 family members who had it, and I never got sick. Some vaccines have their place, some do not. You have your opinion, I have mine. If a job I have requires it, yes I'll get it. Other than that I wont.

RunnerNurse09, BSN, RN · Oct 22, 2017

Why not gladly accept the vaccine that prevents the cancer in the first place???

If its slow progressing why the sense of urgency?