Are accelerated programs fair?

caro3334 · Aug 27, 2007

Including prerequisites, the accelerated program requires a total of 127-129 hours (68-70 hours of prerequisites and 59 hours of the ABSN program). The traditional BSN program requires 129 hours. Looks pretty even to me.

Well, I am referring to the actual nursing courses. Traditional=64 credits. Accelerated=59. :) I am just pointing out that it is not the exact same curriculum/credit hours. I don't know how it works in other programs. But like another poster said, its probably just combined with another class. Thanks for the great replies!

azor · Aug 27, 2007

i planned going in for my BSN after i must have got i year of experience but i am contemplating the online courses but i dont really know if it'll go well with me cos i did my ADN in class environs and i'll like my BSN that way but i dont actually know what to do and how to go about my BSN programme.i really would like to go back for my BSN.does anybody know anything about Strayer university?please,tell me.

Azor

teenycar · Aug 27, 2007

I did my BSN in 6 quarters. It was shorter than most but it was easy for me. I guess it all depends on the person. So long as you come out with the knowledge and hands on training I don't see an issue. Just my .02

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Aug 29, 2007

Well, I am referring to the actual nursing courses. Traditional=64 credits. Accelerated=59. :) I am just pointing out that it is not the exact same curriculum/credit hours. I don't know how it works in other programs. But like another poster said, its probably just combined with another class. Thanks for the great replies!

Out of curiosity, I just took another look. The nursing portion is exactly the same except for a 2-hour foundations of pharmacology that is not in the accelerated (I couldn't tell you what that is all about, most traditional BSN programs only have 1 pharmacology class). The only other difference is an upper level elective, which could be in anything, so it isn't really an additional nursing requirement (you could probably apply one of your prior credits to that if it is upper-level). So other than that one 2-hour class, the programs are identical. I find the second pharm class a bit odd, but it still seems very fair to me, overall.

jjjoy, LPN · Aug 30, 2007

The concept of an "accelerated" program is bound to create tensions. First of all, it implies that other programs as thus "slow." By emphasizing that "not just anybody" can handle the accelerated schedule there's a clear implication that those in traditional programs just can't hack a quicker approach. If a person is attending school full-time, why wouldn't they choose the accelerated option if they qualified? You've already given up ideas of having a "normal" college social life as a nursing student anyway - at least at my school, nursing students never really experienced "on-campus" life.

I think the "accelerated" programs would do better to emphasize the equivalency of the programs. Instead of emphasizing that it's "sped up", they should emphasize the lack of breaks between terms and the schools' structuring the classes to allow more classes to be taken in the same term, which usually isn't an option at all.

Could first bach students handle that? Some certainly could. So why not offer it more widely? The reality is that schools target the accel programs to second bachs because they are more willing and able to pay (and get private loans for) the premium fees that the accel programs charge. It's hard to convince a second bach to go back to school for two years for *just* another bachelor's... so the schools crammed it into one year - which is a much easier sell, even with the high sticker price.

Many nursing programs over the years have emphasized how difficult and all consuming they were. Warning students away from anything more than the most minimal of part-time work. Warning non-traditional students that their way of life will change drastically while in school because of the rigorous demands and amount to learn in *just* 2 years. And then, boom!, schools are touting that some can earn a BSN-RN in *just* one year. A tough, rigorous year, yes, but still, just one year. Uh... so did traditional full-time programs just suddenly get *easier* and *less* rigorous?

And then to hear an accelerated student say that they think they'd "be bored by a traditional program"?! That's bound to raise some hackles. I imagine the accel student imagining that regular programs mean class from 8-1, studying til 5 and having a normal life otherwise, which wasn't the case.

NightOwl0624 · Aug 31, 2007

:yeahthat: Jjjoy, I think you said that very well!

caro3334 · Aug 31, 2007

Out of curiosity, I just took another look. The nursing portion is exactly the same except for a 2-hour foundations of pharmacology that is not in the accelerated (I couldn't tell you what that is all about, most traditional BSN programs only have 1 pharmacology class). The only other difference is an upper level elective, which could be in anything, so it isn't really an additional nursing requirement (you could probably apply one of your prior credits to that if it is upper-level). So other than that one 2-hour class, the programs are identical. I find the second pharm class a bit odd, but it still seems very fair to me, overall.

So they are not identical. :) I stand by what I said before.

Asherah, BSN, RN · Aug 31, 2007

Well, I am 21 and will soon be 22, so I am getting older. I guess I imagined myself well on my way by now. I wish I was one of those students who knew what they wanted out of life in high school. I am grateful to be in a program, but I will be almost 24 when I graduate.

Trust me when I say that you would definitely still be considered quite young when it comes to many of us (me included) who are going back to school for another bachelors (in an acc. program, no less) or MSN. I'm sure you realize this fact already, but thought I'd give you a little friendly reminder. Also, I too am one of those folks who had wished I knew what my passion was straight out of high school, but no such luck...the positive spin I put on this situation is the fact that I've had 10 years since HS to appreciate the fact that I know what I don't want to continue doing (e.g. staying in my current work environment, in my current industry). Those ten years pushed me out there to actively inquire, thus I eventually found what I was looking for.

In terms of ABSN programs, I'm applying to a handful. Yes, I'm considering the fact that if I start in Summer 2008 I can be done by mid-Summer 2009 (and be practicing before I turn 30!) Also, I would like to be as focused as possible on my studies, thus I will not be working in school and I will have to take student loans to pay for living expenses during that time. I do not want to do that for two years, when I can do it for one. I can be out and practicing in a year and potentially working on an MSN part-time as well. These are all factors I considered when I decided to try my hand at ABSN programs.

Do I think they are fair? Yes, very much so. Admittedly, I only can speak for the programs I'm applying to and the information I've been given regarding the curriculum and clinical requirements (JHU, Columbia, OHSU). I definitely do not want a short-cut if I'm going to be making a significant investment in my education (both of time and money). I will need to be as competent and skilled as the next new grad, whether they are coming out of an ADN, Trad BSN or DEMSN program. As I have spoken to several alumni of all of my school choices, I trust that this will not be a point of contention.

While you have admitted to wishing you had known about ABSN programs and the quicker timeframes involved, I would say that as you are in the middle of a program now, just be thankful that you're already in and as it is a bit of a longer duration, perhaps you'll get to keep a bit more of your sanity than the ABSN folks.

CrufflerJJ, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Aug 31, 2007

The concept of an "accelerated" program is bound to create tensions. First of all, it implies that other programs as thus "slow." By emphasizing that "not just anybody" can handle the accelerated schedule there's a clear implication that those in traditional programs just can't hack a quicker approach.
And then to hear an accelerated student say that they think they'd "be bored by a traditional program"?! That's bound to raise some hackles. I imagine the accel student imagining that regular programs mean class from 8-1, studying til 5 and having a normal life otherwise, which wasn't the case.

I'm in an accelerated BSN program right now. It's interesting to repeatedly hear from our instructors that accelerated students, typically being older & more mature than traditional nursing students, are "more of a joy" to teach. They say that we're more emotionally mature, more driven, and don't have to be "babysat" as much as the traditional students. I'm doing my best to dispel them of that notion, but we'll see! The profs also say that the "downside" to teaching accelerated students is that we tend to be VERY driven, competitive, and not shy at all about questioning them. As a group, we all tend to want to be "the best", and are very unhappy with anything less than an "A".

I think it's true that not everybody can handle the pace & demands of an accelerated program. I'm 46 y/o, and doubt that I could have even done as well on the nursing prereq courses (such as pharm & pathophys) back when I was 18-19 y/o.

Here's something interesting I learned....for last year's accelerated group, about 28-30 out of 37 passed the HESI test on their first attempt. For the traditional nursing program students at the same university, only about 18/100 passed on the first attempt.

I don't think I'd be "bored" with a traditional program. I went the accelerated route since I couldn't bear the thought of waiting...waiting 2.5-3 years to get into my local ADN program, waiting 2.5 years to get my ADN, waiting another 2+ years to finish my BSN. That's a lot of time.

"Accelerated" describes the pace of our program. It's nothing to cover 1-3 chapters per class session, which is about 100 PowerPoint slides, plus 30-40 pages per chapter from the textbook. Our midterm exam in Nursing Interventions (~2.5 weeks after the course started) covered ~600 pages from the 4 textbooks used in that course. One thing I'm realizing is that the subject material itself isn't all that difficult to understand, but THERE'S SOOOOO MUCH OF IT! The main challenge is prioritizing work to be done (& filtering out important stuff from the less critical), plus retaining the huge amount of material covered each class.

My class has 48 students in it, coming from a wide range of backgrounds. We've got folks who were teachers, police officers, engineers (me + a lady who was an electrical engr for 10 years), microbiologists (MS & PhD), and even a lawyer with 20+ years experience..... There's folks with degrees in interpretive dance, political science, Spanish, Germanic Studies, philosophy, psychology, engineering, criminal justice, microbiology, health sciences, biology, divinity, plus who knows what all else! It's a big group, with ages running ~24-57 years. There are even a few people with doctorate degrees. Not quite your average nursing school crowd.

One thing that was hard for many of us (including yours truly) to realize is that we're no longer at the top of our classes. In most of my prereq courses, I was at the top of my class. This was also common for my fellow classmates. Now, we're among a bunch of fellow over-achievers.

"Accelerated" does not mean exceptional or better or....It is just another path to the goal. :lol2:

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Aug 31, 2007

So they are not identical. :) I stand by what I said before.

Oh good grief :uhoh3:

Do pardon me.

OH MY GOODNESS - ONE WHOLE TWO-CREDIT CLASS DIFFERENCE!! HOW UNFAIR!!!

Is that what you wanted to hear?

I stand by what I said before - one 2-credit class is no big deal - certainly not enough of a disparity to warrant being called "unfair"

jjjoy, LPN · Aug 31, 2007

Our midterm exam in Nursing Interventions (~2.5 weeks after the course started) covered ~600 pages from the 4 textbooks used in that course. One thing I'm realizing is that the subject material itself isn't all that difficult to understand, but THERE'S SOOOOO MUCH OF IT! The main challenge is prioritizing work to be done (& filtering out important stuff from the less critical), plus retaining the huge amount of material covered each class.

I'm not trying to one up you here. I just keep hearing accel folks comment on how much they cover so quickly and I just want to point out that traditional programs aren't much slower. My school had 10 week terms, so we'd supposedly cover one of those inches-thick book in that time for just one of the several courses each term. If one tried to actually read and study each page there would've been no way to complete it. You had to learn to pick out what seemed most relevant, or at least most likely to be tested on, and quickly move on. I agree, it wasn't difficult, just a ridiculous quantity.

I'd love to be in an accel program just for the environment of such strong students. Nursing traditionally didn't appeal to certain kinds of students as they would tend opt for areas with stronger educational requirements. I hope the increase in second degree students will help hone nursing education. There were many issues I had with how my program was taught, but the usual faculty line was that there was too much to cover to stop and ask questions. The general attitude from instructors was that if we passed the program, we'd know what we needed to know, so there was no reason to waste time on clarification.

Especially frustrating were those NCLEX-style test questions that could be argued different ways. But the instructor, instead of giving a good explanation or admitting the question was vague, would just say "if you use your critical thinking skills, you'll see why this is the best answer." Ugh. Instructors might be more willing to listen to the feedback of accel students since they have already proven strong academic abilities in order to get into the program.

CrufflerJJ, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Aug 31, 2007

Even 10 weeks to cover a monster book is pretty fast. Many of our classes are squeezed into 5 weeks. For some courses, this seems "doable", and my fellow students & I are able to comprehend the material pretty well. For some other material (such as a grad level statistics course), 5 weeks isn't enough. Then again, given the professor, 5 weeks exposure to her is too many weeks.

As to the "strengths" of nursing students, I've been very impressed with the folks in my class. There are (almost) no slackers, and everybody pushes to do well, not just to pass. Although it probably depends on the professors teaching the course, my nursing prereq courses in A&P, Micro, Pharm, Pathophys were all challenging. Despite my past degree (chemical engineering) & 16+ years as a paramedic, I was challenged to excel in those courses. If I was only trying to "pass", I guess they might have been easier. To get A's in the courses, however, was a royal bitxh (trying to watch my language!). My family physician asked me if I was finding the coursework easy. I told her NO! The combination of the pace, volume of material, and testing standards makes it no walk in the park.

I'm not sure that accelerated students will "hone" nursing education. That's probably more a factor of the college/chairperson, and the instructor themselves. Some are engaging, open to questions, and respect different opinions. Others, though, are next to useless (though tenured, of course). Probably about the same as people in any field.

As to listening to challenges to NCLEX-style questions ("pick the least crappy of the 6 crappy choices below"), that's also an instructor-specific trait. With some profs, it's not worth wasting your breath. Others, though, are willing to listen and explain why their answer is the "best" one.