Anyone heard of any NP to MD programs?

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A girl I go to school with said that there is a school in Missouri that has a bridge program for NPs to become MDs.

Have any of you heard of a program like this?? :confused:

Thanks!

Kitty

David is right.

Also, giving NPs more autonomy will not come close to solving the problem. NPs and PAs already have PLENTY of autonomy to function as primary care providers in the vast majority of states. What more autonomy do you want? Having a consulting/supervising physician is necessary, and restrictions on prescription authority is a non issue if you are practicing family practice. The problem is, increasing autonomy does not change the distribution of NPPs just like David described. In fact, increasing autonomy of NPPs may WOSRTEN the shortage because they will also have the legislative allowances that would permit them to earn more in specialties. The answer is increased primary care reimbursement and decreased specialty reimbursement. A shave biopsy by a FP MD pays less than one done by a derm MD. That does not make sense.

And, giving NPs that authority won't help because NPs are ALREADY complaining they dont get reimbursed the same as physicians. Well, if NPs want to reimbursed the same as physicians, where is the real cost savings here? Why give NPs more authority? It won't help the system at all.

NP autonomy won't really worsen primary care shortages. There is no real danger that NPs or anyone else will be allowed to practice specialty medicine independently. The real issue is that NPs go into specialty practice for the same reason that PAs and MDs do, its where the money is. Its also the reason that there is a shortage of providers in rural and underserved areas. People don't want to live there.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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let's see... more autonomy, how about complete so i don't have to have an even higher overhead and startup expense to open a new clinic in a rural place that doesn't have one. then i see around 5000 people a year who likely wouldn't have seen anyone had a provider not come to their town. then, i can consult the physicians i refer to regularly as needed, just like i do now.

the problem is there is nothing to prevent you from doing that now. the states that do not require physician participation in practice have the same or worse shortages of health care providers. looking at the data you could make the assumption that np independence causes a health care shortage in a given area (half of the top 10 shortage states are independent np practice states).

yeah, i want to get paid family docs wages too for the same services. how dare i... where's the savings? how about the miles the rural folks have to drive if they don't have a clinic in their town? how about the ers who have about 70% of their patients that belong in a clinic where the bill to us taxpayers is about 10% the cost. instead their in the eds because they can't get into their doctor (or more appropriately the system has led them there like sheep).

the reason that health care shortage areas are shortage areas are because people don't want to live there. they are areas with minimal insurance coverage with poor payor bases. there are plenty of jobs available in rural america. the problem is not independence, it is the fact that people generally don't want to live there and the problems with any medical practice in the area.

david carpenter, pa-c

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The reason that health care shortage areas are shortage areas are because people don't want to live there. They are areas with minimal insurance coverage with poor payor bases. There are plenty of jobs available in rural America. The problem is not independence, it is the fact that people generally don't want to live there and the problems with any medical practice in the area.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Exactly. NP's are no more likely to want to live out in the boonies than docs. People want recreation, culture, museums, etc. Claiming that you need NP autonomy so that they can serve the rural communities is just a red herring.

The solution is to create incentive for people to want to move to rural communities. Maybe offer more loan forgiveness, bonuses, etc.

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Exactly. NP's are no more likely to want to live out in the boonies than docs. People want recreation, culture, museums, etc. Claiming that you need NP autonomy so that they can serve the rural communities is just a red herring.

The solution is to create incentive for people to want to move to rural communities. Maybe offer more loan forgiveness, bonuses, etc.

Wrong again. Autonomy won't give any advantage to fam practice NPs in a place with all the goodies where all the MDs have flooded to. I would much rather practice independently in a rural area than joined at the hip with a MD in museumville.

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Wrong again. Autonomy won't give any advantage to fam practice NPs in a place with all the goodies where all the MDs have flooded to. I would much rather practice independently in a rural area than joined at the hip with a MD in museumville.

Good for you for wanting to live rurally. However, your average person doesn't, including MD's, NP's, etc.

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Good for you for wanting to live rurally. However, your average person doesn't, including MD's, NP's, etc.

Not so much that anyone wants to. We'd just rather live rural and independent than urban and not. Lesser of two evils. Doesn't really matter to me personally, as after 3 yrs out of school, I already hate it so much that I make a daily attempt to find another way to make six figures as far away from healthcare as I can get. Come on powerball....

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What do you hate about it?

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What do you hate about it?

Everything. The call, the pay, the lack of administration, the patients constantly bothering you for more and more, the drug seeking tax-dollar slugs on welfare and medicaid, the movement toward government run socialization of medicine, the ones who are too good to get on the phone and consult with someone that wasn't part of their fraternity in school. I'm just going to find where the best reimbursement is in medicine right now, and explode in it and make enough money to invest in other venture enough to get out of medicine altogether. I'd rather run a backhoe than do this crap.

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Everything. The call, the pay, the lack of administration, the patients constantly bothering you for more and more, the drug seeking tax-dollar slugs on welfare and medicaid, the movement toward government run socialization of medicine, the ones who are too good to get on the phone and consult with someone that wasn't part of their fraternity in school. I'm just going to find where the best reimbursement is in medicine right now, and explode in it and make enough money to invest in other venture enough to get out of medicine altogether. I'd rather run a backhoe than do this crap.

And you think that is all going to disappear when you move to a rural area? Having done many of my rotations in Appalachia I can tell you it is much worse. It is not only not having your calls not returned but having the nearest specialist 200 miles away. Its having patients hit you up for refills in the grocery store. Its knowing that those drug seekers are your neighbor and you can't fire them because you are the only game in town. Its having the patients know where your house is so they can drop by if they have a problem. Its trying to run a clinic without reliable phone or internet service.

The problems don't disappear when you are in rural America, they just become different.

We are wandering off topic. There is an independent nurse practice thread or someone could start a new thread.

David Carpenter, PA-C

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Everything. The call, the pay, the lack of administration, the patients constantly bothering you for more and more, the drug seeking tax-dollar slugs on welfare and medicaid, the movement toward government run socialization of medicine, the ones who are too good to get on the phone and consult with someone that wasn't part of their fraternity in school. I'm just going to find where the best reimbursement is in medicine right now, and explode in it and make enough money to invest in other venture enough to get out of medicine altogether. I'd rather run a backhoe than do this crap.

Are you working in primary care?

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I think that you need to check your facts. 44% of med school applicants get in. It is over 50% if you discount re-applicants....

David Carpenter, PA-C

that's in USA. what i said is actually happening in Oz. wow, USA has a med school admission rate of 44% to 50%? amazing. must be real easy to get into med schools in USA. in Oz, it's 20%. and in many places in the world, the program is still 8 years. in uk, it is usually 5 or 6 years.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
that's in USA. what i said is actually happening in Oz. wow, USA has a med school admission rate of 44% to 50%? amazing. must be real easy to get into med schools in USA. in Oz, it's 20%. and in many places in the world, the program is still 8 years. in uk, it is usually 5 or 6 years.

If you want to get technical Med schools here in the US are 8 years if you count the undergrad degree, then there is the residency part. I"m sitting here looking at the OZ rules and am getting confused over the awarding of degrees. It looks to me that things are basicly the same, just packaged in a different wrapper.

http://www.medical-colleges.net/medical.htm I know it's not a scholarly paper or site, but here it is.

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